> Leonetti recently spoke to retired players alongside EarQ at a meeting of the Chicago chapter of the NFL Players Association. When Leonetti asked how many players had experienced concussions during their career, they all raised their hands. When Leonetti asked how many have experienced hearing loss approximately 25 percent raised their hands. When he asked how many have tinnitus approximately 50 percent raised their hands.
cmiles8 1 hours ago [-]
I would never let my child play contact football. The data is beyond clear that this sport causes irreparable life altering damage to the brain.
A lot of football players also suffer from mental health issues which, not to state the obvious, is likely not helped by banging your head all the time.
chrisBob 48 minutes ago [-]
I am surprised by the otherwise intelligent and caring parents I have met who had their elementary schoolers playing tackle football. I don't understand that decision at all.
ilamont 3 minutes ago [-]
Same here. When did Boston University start publishing about the CTE/football connection? 10 or 15 years ago? A couple I know, one with a public health degree from an Ivy, still let one of her kids play through all of that, and he played at the college level, too.
At the same time, a lot of parents (myself included) steered kids to other sports. That had another effect: there was even more pressure on parents who didn't care about CTE (and their kids) to get into football because kiddie leagues and especially high school teams were short of players. This happened to a friend whose two boys were strong hockey players, the coach at their school pushed them to try out for football the following season.
badgersnake 28 minutes ago [-]
Unless it’s actually banned below a certain age, what are you going to do if that’s what they want to do with their life?
If they don’t play and everyone else does, their development will be many years behind their peers which makes it unlikely they could play at a high level.
But maybe you’re okay with that.
swatcoder 19 minutes ago [-]
Yes, I think parents who see tackle football as an unsafe sport for their children are okay with not setting up their kids to play it at a high level.
And like any responsible parents, they presumably also don't just defer to what they're elementary aged children "want to do with their life" nor feed into the exaggeration that "everybody else" does anything at all, let alone play tackle football.
If you disagree with the dangers of the sport or are afraid of shaping your children's life choices for their own benefit, that's fine for you, but the rhetorical and snide way you presume others should share that view seems strange.
amanaplanacanal 18 minutes ago [-]
If they don't play a game which damages their brain when they are children, they won't be able to go into a career which damages their brain as an adult. Hmmm.
kakacik 15 minutes ago [-]
Gotta stick to the crowd at all costs, its so uncomfortable outside of it right
Forgeties79 33 minutes ago [-]
Tackle football is basically the only sport my kids are not allowed to play. I don’t talk about it because I don’t want it to become something forbidden and therefore cool, but if they naturally find their way there and start getting pushy about it, it’s one of the few things I’m prepared to put my foot down about with no compromise.
thrwaway73637 1 hours ago [-]
playing at nfl level and kid level is something very different
estearum 58 minutes ago [-]
As someone who has had multiple concussions in other sports, the impacts in youth football are absolutely sufficient to cause concussions and more minor (but still cumulatively damaging) trauma. The fact that they're a repeated part of the game and not occasional incidents is very, very bad.
Requiring a child to play football should be actual child abuse, and even allowing it should be frowned upon the way that letting a child play with a blowtorch is.
thrwaway73637 53 minutes ago [-]
there you said it: you got concusions from other sports. so why single out football as the worst thing ever?
toast0 28 minutes ago [-]
Certainly, football isn't the only thing people do that leads to head injuries.
But if it is significantly worse than other sports, why not single it out as the worst thing ever?
Several sports increase the risk of CTE, but football has been more studied, I think because the incidence of obviously impared former players is higher than in other sports.
estearum 10 minutes ago [-]
> The fact that they're a repeated part of the game and not occasional incidents is very, very bad.
hibikir 36 minutes ago [-]
Due to the number of concussions per minute played. It could be worse (boxing), but it's not difficult to see how some sports are far riskier than others
lkjdsklf 49 minutes ago [-]
CTE isn’t caused by concussions. Hence the rest of their comment.
dwaltrip 18 minutes ago [-]
Is it not worse?
ceejayoz 39 minutes ago [-]
> playing at nfl level and kid level is something very different
Correct. NFL payers are better paid, get better medical care, have better training and equipment, and their brains are more developed.
sanex 55 minutes ago [-]
Sure but the quality of gear you get in the NFL is much higher than what your typical kid gets. I regret the two years of football I played in high school.
thrwaway73637 52 minutes ago [-]
did you enjoy it at the time?
amanaplanacanal 16 minutes ago [-]
I'm sure people enjoy heroin at the time.
chrisBob 51 minutes ago [-]
Yes! A child with a developing brain, and no medical staff on the sidelines is potentially in a worse situation.
kakacik 12 minutes ago [-]
As mentioned elsewhere here the damage is cumulative and started in their youth
alistairSH 58 minutes ago [-]
Yes, and?
It's well established that the effects of repeated head trauma are cumulative, with progressively longer healing periods, worse symptoms, etc. And that sub-concussive impacts also accumulate along with the concussive impacts.
From the article:
The bulk of the head impacts that these former NFL players experienced didn’t occur at the NFL level. They occurred at the collegiate level ... and at the high school level and in many cases the youth level. And all of those cumulative hits to the head added up to result in an increased risk,” said Daneshvar.
kyawzazaw 55 minutes ago [-]
did you even read? the bulk happened at collegiate level
Alosco et al. (2017) – Age of First Exposure to Tackle Football and Later-Life Cognitive Impairment and Neuropsychiatric Symptoms (Translational Psychiatry)
[https://doi.org/10.1038/tp.2017.197]
even intl football headers have concerns
thrwaway73637 51 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
moate 54 minutes ago [-]
From an injury perspective: What are they? Let's assume we're talking MS/HS football where the mass of the players is enough to really do some damage.
Provide your data Mr. Thrwaway, if that even is your real name.
thrwaway73637 50 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
jamiek88 24 minutes ago [-]
From the article: The bulk of the head impacts that these former NFL players experienced didn’t occur at the NFL level. They occurred at the collegiate level ... and at the high school level and in many cases the youth level. And all of those cumulative hits to the head added up to result in an increased risk,” said Daneshvar.
Zigurd 13 minutes ago [-]
I haven't watched an NFL game in years. I can no longer enjoy seeing people trade their brain function and lifespan for money that way. For that matter I recently revisited an extreme skiing video I bought long ago. Several of the people in the credits are dead now.
All sports carry some risk. I ride a road bike. I wouldn't tell others how to weigh the risks of their sports of choice. I just wouldn't pay to watch someone fly a wing suit, knowing how some of those people have died.
contubernio 6 minutes ago [-]
I remember in an eight grade game coming back to the huddle and the lineman who played next to me was talking about his sister's homework. He clearly had a concussion and we (the players) sent him to the sideline where the coaches berated him for coming out of the game and sent him back (this was in the 80s).
Already at the JV level I saw multiple concussions in games. Not kos but guys woozy liked they'd been punched. Nobody cared back then (US south).
criddell 54 seconds ago [-]
[delayed]
anthonytminor 6 minutes ago [-]
The lifetime risks and dangers involved in many of these sports is my main counterargument to those I encounter that oppose the NIL money flowing into collegiate sports for removing the amateurism feel of it.
The young men and women are putting their health and safety on the line potentially with life altering injuries, they should be compensated for it. Doubly so since beforehand the universities were more than happy to profit solely from their work.
quaddoggy 6 minutes ago [-]
This is such a brutal sport. For reasons outside my control (see: partner), NFL games are on in my house every weekend—and therefore in my peripheral vision. It seems like every game a 20 something in their prime is being carted off for a season ending injury. Unacceptable costs. Tennis is the way. Boxing without contact.
taurath 30 minutes ago [-]
It adds a sort of tragic element to the game. Growing up I used to cheer for big hits now there's a recognition you are often watching someone lose several years off of their life.
There's also these guardian caps to reduce some of the shock, but they're not very effective - they absorb like 10% of the blow, and you don't see very many players wearing them in-game.
2OEH8eoCRo0 2 minutes ago [-]
If CTE is from cumulative small blows then the guardian caps do nothing but allow the league to act like they're taking it seriously.
yborg 17 minutes ago [-]
The main issue seems to be shock to the brain being sloshed around inside the skull, even neck-snapping type impacts without any contact to the head itself can cause brain injury. The extra helmet padding doesn't do anything to reduce that. Plenty of linemen have been diagnosed with CTE even though their play doesn't involve as much helmet contact or high speed collision.
kylecazar 47 minutes ago [-]
I love football, but it's insane that we allow this for entertainment. Guardian helmets are insufficient. They need to commit to big changes, some of which will alter the game. No head in practice whatsoever. Redesign the line of scrimmage. Mandatory month out for concussions. I'll still enjoy whatever it becomes.
BoxOfRain 5 minutes ago [-]
I wonder if the US could learn to love rugby as well? A rather different game in a lot of ways, but it's definitely in the conversation for the most engaging team sport to watch in my opinion. While it has head injury issues of its own (it's still a full-contact football code at the end of the day), the sport has been a bit more open to changing things on this front.
11 minutes ago [-]
39 minutes ago [-]
bena 34 minutes ago [-]
> Redesign the line of scrimmage.
What are your thoughts on how to redesign the line of scrimmage?
deaton 27 minutes ago [-]
I'd get some hate for this on football forums, but targeting needs to be enforced a lot more strictly than it is. The NFL also did a good job reforming kickoffs, they're much safer now than they were, but we need to do something about punts.
ericol 57 minutes ago [-]
75% is an estimate. Of the 396 brains actually examined, 93% had CTE, though donors skew heavily toward players with symptoms.
noJiveTV 18 minutes ago [-]
Played for four years ... my conclusion: regular, calm, ordinary people don't usually excel at american football. Aggressive, intense, competitive folk have a great time tho' ... it's not safe at all. Every last one of the starters self-identify as: a headbuster!
dwaltrip 16 minutes ago [-]
The game should be changed. It’s very clear.
People will adapt.
1970-01-01 1 hours ago [-]
Holy buried lede, Batman:
>The bulk of the head impacts that these former NFL players experienced didn’t occur at the NFL level. They occurred at the collegiate level ... and at the high school level and in many cases the youth level. And all of those cumulative hits to the head added up to result in an increased risk,” said Daneshvar.
As a youth football from 5 years old in the 90s to high school in 00s in the Midwest, this is not surprising at all. Things are competitive from a young age. We more recently know much better, but this knowledge. The taught knowledge was protecting one’s neck from injury with “proper” form. From my lived experience at those times, there was 0 mention of head injuries, and blacking out and dizziness after hits were ignored by all if you were able to stand or walk within a short period of time.
christophilus 25 minutes ago [-]
Yeah. The rules need to change substantially at all levels. I can't see another way out, without just banning the sport outright. In soccer, they've already done it at the kid's level. My kids' teams don't allow heading the ball at all. That's such an obvious win. It changes soccer pretty substantially, but it's still a lot of fun, and much safer with that rule in place. Football has enough money that I'm sure someone can solve this by adjusting the rules towards safety without completely changing what makes the game fun.
That said, it may not be solvable. It's not just helmet-to-helmet collisions that are the problem. You often see players make a diving grab, and their head slams into the ground when they land. That's micro-concussion territory that may be unavoidable. But, my guess is it's an 80/20 rule. If you somehow eliminate player-to-helmet hits altogether, you'd probably end up in a good enough place.
Aboutplants 27 minutes ago [-]
This is actually worse for the NFL, as it shows the cumulative impact is more dangerous than players who stop playing at high school
dopamean 57 minutes ago [-]
Great news for the NFL.
kenjackson 26 minutes ago [-]
What is the percent of the general population?
theDoug 21 minutes ago [-]
The percent of the general population that gets Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy? This isn't a naturally occurring phenomena. It's the cumulative result of repetitive skull impacts and concussions.
ElijahLynn 48 minutes ago [-]
Glad this is being talked about.
deaton 30 minutes ago [-]
I'm kinda surprised its that low. Football, especially at the pro and college levels, has players (especially linemen) taking car crash level hits every single play.
Rendered at 17:56:41 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140707134223.h...
> Leonetti recently spoke to retired players alongside EarQ at a meeting of the Chicago chapter of the NFL Players Association. When Leonetti asked how many players had experienced concussions during their career, they all raised their hands. When Leonetti asked how many have experienced hearing loss approximately 25 percent raised their hands. When he asked how many have tinnitus approximately 50 percent raised their hands.
A lot of football players also suffer from mental health issues which, not to state the obvious, is likely not helped by banging your head all the time.
At the same time, a lot of parents (myself included) steered kids to other sports. That had another effect: there was even more pressure on parents who didn't care about CTE (and their kids) to get into football because kiddie leagues and especially high school teams were short of players. This happened to a friend whose two boys were strong hockey players, the coach at their school pushed them to try out for football the following season.
If they don’t play and everyone else does, their development will be many years behind their peers which makes it unlikely they could play at a high level.
But maybe you’re okay with that.
And like any responsible parents, they presumably also don't just defer to what they're elementary aged children "want to do with their life" nor feed into the exaggeration that "everybody else" does anything at all, let alone play tackle football.
If you disagree with the dangers of the sport or are afraid of shaping your children's life choices for their own benefit, that's fine for you, but the rhetorical and snide way you presume others should share that view seems strange.
Requiring a child to play football should be actual child abuse, and even allowing it should be frowned upon the way that letting a child play with a blowtorch is.
But if it is significantly worse than other sports, why not single it out as the worst thing ever?
Several sports increase the risk of CTE, but football has been more studied, I think because the incidence of obviously impared former players is higher than in other sports.
Correct. NFL payers are better paid, get better medical care, have better training and equipment, and their brains are more developed.
It's well established that the effects of repeated head trauma are cumulative, with progressively longer healing periods, worse symptoms, etc. And that sub-concussive impacts also accumulate along with the concussive impacts.
From the article: The bulk of the head impacts that these former NFL players experienced didn’t occur at the NFL level. They occurred at the collegiate level ... and at the high school level and in many cases the youth level. And all of those cumulative hits to the head added up to result in an increased risk,” said Daneshvar.
also there are studies on this
McKee et al. (2023) – Neuropathologic and Clinical Findings in Young Contact Sport Athletes Exposed to Repetitive Head Impacts (JAMA Neurology) [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/2...]
Alosco et al. (2017) – Age of First Exposure to Tackle Football and Later-Life Cognitive Impairment and Neuropsychiatric Symptoms (Translational Psychiatry) [https://doi.org/10.1038/tp.2017.197]
even intl football headers have concerns
Provide your data Mr. Thrwaway, if that even is your real name.
All sports carry some risk. I ride a road bike. I wouldn't tell others how to weigh the risks of their sports of choice. I just wouldn't pay to watch someone fly a wing suit, knowing how some of those people have died.
Already at the JV level I saw multiple concussions in games. Not kos but guys woozy liked they'd been punched. Nobody cared back then (US south).
The young men and women are putting their health and safety on the line potentially with life altering injuries, they should be compensated for it. Doubly so since beforehand the universities were more than happy to profit solely from their work.
There's also these guardian caps to reduce some of the shock, but they're not very effective - they absorb like 10% of the blow, and you don't see very many players wearing them in-game.
What are your thoughts on how to redesign the line of scrimmage?
People will adapt.
>The bulk of the head impacts that these former NFL players experienced didn’t occur at the NFL level. They occurred at the collegiate level ... and at the high school level and in many cases the youth level. And all of those cumulative hits to the head added up to result in an increased risk,” said Daneshvar.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/nfl-cte-players-s...
That said, it may not be solvable. It's not just helmet-to-helmet collisions that are the problem. You often see players make a diving grab, and their head slams into the ground when they land. That's micro-concussion territory that may be unavoidable. But, my guess is it's an 80/20 rule. If you somehow eliminate player-to-helmet hits altogether, you'd probably end up in a good enough place.