Inevitably the internet will have two types of users:
1. The anti-bot bots that must stop you from proceeding, because they aren't entirely sure you aren't a bot
and
2. The bots that can get past them, which we all must eventually deploy, if we want a chance to visit a web page
ACCount37 2 hours ago [-]
Why would anyone ever want to solve 99 Cloudflare captchas a day if you can get a bot to do it instead?
iso1631 2 hours ago [-]
Literally used an LLM to answer the latest one 20 minutes ago, which was "what can climb a tree".
Cloudflare is a blight on the internet, but HN loves it.
pocksuppet 13 minutes ago [-]
Cloudflare just started blocking Googlebot, so maybe we'll see an exodus away from Cloudflare by people who want their sites indexed? Hopefully?
aftbit 2 hours ago [-]
The internet is for whoever wants to send bits to each other and is willing to pay for transit to do it. The WWW might be for end users, though that seems less obvious by the day.
pocksuppet 12 minutes ago [-]
Right. The RFC is attempting to clarify the IETF's official position. The IETF is not the internet police, and can't make other actors obey.
We can make our own internet though - with blackhack and jookers.
supermaurio2000 2 hours ago [-]
what you write is excactly the problem the RFC tries to address.
And not only for http but for the whole internet protocol family.
reactordev 2 hours ago [-]
sorry but that ship has sailed.
iso1631 3 hours ago [-]
Who's an end user.
Unless you own your hardware, you aren't the end user. When your phone, tv, camera, or even laptop on a non-free OS is on your network, you can get some semblance of control by controlling what network services it uses.
Things like DoH are part of the removal of my control as a home user and give it to Sony, or Apple, or TPLink
The most obvious thing is it becomes harder to block adverts.
Throw in internet-centralisation through HN darlings like cloudflare and you're screwed. You have no idea what anything is talking to, as it's the same destination IPs, so the choice is either block it completely, or allow it with no control.
1718627440 2 hours ago [-]
I do share your actual concern, but I think the term 'end user' applies to any human sitting in front of a computer, trying to achieve something, independently of whether the effective sysadmin works against his interests or not.
__MatrixMan__ 2 hours ago [-]
Right, it's not about property, it's just about whether the computer is helpful to the immediately available human or whether it serves some remote one.
remix2000 2 hours ago [-]
> Who's an end user.
I think in this context it'd be any netizen who does not hold a significant amount of power to influence other [unrelated to them] netizens?
iso1631 2 hours ago [-]
So me. The only influence I have over what "my" phone does is monitoring and blocking what it connects to when it's connected to my network.
DoH works against that
paulddraper 2 hours ago [-]
This is an awkward read, the result of trying to convey an idea while couched in other language.
That idea being that AI is less important than humans.
Rendered at 15:59:02 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
Cloudflare is a blight on the internet, but HN loves it.
We can make our own internet though - with blackhack and jookers.
Unless you own your hardware, you aren't the end user. When your phone, tv, camera, or even laptop on a non-free OS is on your network, you can get some semblance of control by controlling what network services it uses.
Things like DoH are part of the removal of my control as a home user and give it to Sony, or Apple, or TPLink
The most obvious thing is it becomes harder to block adverts.
Throw in internet-centralisation through HN darlings like cloudflare and you're screwed. You have no idea what anything is talking to, as it's the same destination IPs, so the choice is either block it completely, or allow it with no control.
I think in this context it'd be any netizen who does not hold a significant amount of power to influence other [unrelated to them] netizens?
DoH works against that
That idea being that AI is less important than humans.