Genuinely impressed the lengths they’ll go to in the US order to avoid doing something about guns.
Next stop - magic incantations to bestow bulletproof status on schoolkids
gmueckl 2 days ago [-]
"Thoughts and prayers". It's always "thoughts and prayers" and invoking an inaginary "good guy with a gun". Can it get much more magical/mystical/performative than that?
Given an active shooter threats, what is the solution if not a good guy with a gun?
conception 2 days ago [-]
More gun homicides per capita happen in states with looser gun laws by and large. The good guy with a gun is largely a myth as compared to “i have a gun and I’m going to use it to kill you”.
VertanaNinjai 2 days ago [-]
Why are you assuming active shooter threats need to exist to begin with? There’s only one country it regularly happens in.
gmueckl 2 days ago [-]
The existence of active shooter threats and especially their prevalence shows that the best protection - prevention - isn't working. And in the US, the best possible protection (strict gun ownership laws) is prevented based on an ideology that arguably misreads the Constitution on purpose to keep a whole industry alive.
And should it come to an actual active shooter, the response needs to be a properly equipped and trained police force acting against it rather than sitting it out outside the building. That is not the proverbial "good guy with a gun" because that's implied to be a random untrained civilian on the scene.
rTX5CMRXIfFG 2 days ago [-]
Where’s the data supporting that that’s a good solution and prevents casualties in the first place
NopIdoN 2 days ago [-]
Ever see Takeshi's Castle?
blooalien 2 days ago [-]
"American Ninja Warrior" gameshow looks a lot like it to me; It looks like a pretty direct copy of "Takeshi's Castle" in many ways in fact.
ageitgey 2 days ago [-]
This is not super on topic, but ANW is the US version of the Japanese TV show Sasuke, which is itself inspired by the Adventure Zone segment on Takeshi's Castle. So, yes, it is connected.
jrflowers 2 days ago [-]
> Next stop - magic incantations to bestow bulletproof status on schoolkids
They already sell Kevlar backpacks
Joker_vD 2 days ago [-]
A top seller in Libya, Somali, Iraq, and that one particular first-world country which our lawyers from that country advise us to refrain from naming! Buy one today!
bestouff 2 days ago [-]
Are you sure it still deserves the "first world" label ?
Joker_vD 2 days ago [-]
Well, until it has a glorious socialist revolution — yes, it is a first world country.
Tadpole9181 2 days ago [-]
Beyond the obvious fact nobody really uses the cold war definition anymore, are you really insinuating those countries are socialist?
rootusrootus 2 days ago [-]
Pretty easy to make glib comments like that. How do you propose the problem be addressed? The Constitution as written makes banning guns a non-starter. So amending the Constitution is step 1, and a big step it is. 3/4 states ratifying is a non-trivial threshold. And then what? There are already more guns than people in the US. Going to confiscate them all? Good luck.
Even Australia, the poster child for instituting draconian restrictions in response to tragedy, has vast numbers of illegal (and legal) weapons still in civilian hands. So clearly that isn't the answer.
So I want to know what your easy solution is.
defrost 2 days ago [-]
> Even Australia, the poster child for instituting draconian restrictions
It has certainly always been painted that way, particularly in US media driven by NRA framings.
An alternative description might be that Australia simply (almost but not quite) made gun regulation uniform across all states and territories.
At the time of the Port Arthur massacre all the states with larger populations had gun regulation, much like they had car and truck regulations - paperwork on ownership, licencing, etc.
Two relatively low population states, Queensland and Tasmania, had no regulation and territories had zero to mixed regulation.
Following a then world record lone shooter event in Tasmania the public pretty much overwhelmingly supported uniform regulation across the country- which meant imposing much the same laws as were then current in Western Australia on the alternative reality of Queensland.
Much of the buy back went towards buying back old guns and unused extra just in case guns that owners decided weren't actually worth formally licencing and paying annual fees (like a car rego) for.
The result of near uniform gun regulation across the country, all sales tracked, etc. was a decrease in gun incidents and two decades of near zero mass shooting events.
femto 2 days ago [-]
> So clearly that isn't the answer.
Quite an assertion.
What Australia is doing works by one measure that matters: number of people killed by a gun. In 2024 the gun murder rates were:
Australia didn't confiscate vast numbers of guns by violence. It introduced a buyback scheme, which a lot of gun owners took up. The buyback was "an offer they couldn't refuse" for classes of firearms that were banned, but once it was done it meant it was more tractable to keep firearms in check. The big thing is did was reduce the number of households that contained a firearm even if some of the remaining (paranoid?) license holders increased their number of guns.
You must have misunderstood the assertion, then. I will attempt to clarify.
- Australia tried to get rid of guns, still has millions. Several hundred thousand of them illegal.
- Australia has a much lower firearms homicide rate, despite still having quite a lot of guns. Not the same ratio as the US, sure, but 4.5M guns for 28M people is still fairly prevalent and available.
- So the rate 1:50 ratio is not easily explained by simply reducing the number of guns in circulation. Something else is going on. Something harder to solve, even, than the second amendment.
defrost 2 days ago [-]
> Australia tried to get rid of guns,
False. - Gun regulation was made considerably more uniform.
Okay. I should have interpreted it to mean "So clearly that isn't the full answer". I interpreted it to mean "So clearly that isn't part of the answer".
I think reducing the "saturation" of guns is important, as it is a big driver of people's mindset, whereby they see a gun as an answer. By "saturation, I mean the number owned, their availability, their visibility, their promotion and so on. The US is a standout in ownership, in that it has almost twice as many civilian firearms per person than the next closest country [1]. I suspect the US is also a standout in the other areas: availability (Walmart, but less than before), visibility (open carry), promotion (NRA).
The two statements are not inherently contradictory.
Removing / reducing / "doing something about guns" may well be hard, and it is beyond fascinating to many of us that majority of people / politicians / entities in USA do not want to do it.
In fact, I would say two statements are even complementary - your statement that doing something about guns in usa is hard, is because / as a result of original post that (bewilderingly) most Americans don't want to do it.
(Somehow, turning children schools into dystopian fortresses with metal detectors and armed teachers and security guards and turn stiles and gun drills, pervasive surveillance and trigger-twitchy responses and now drones, is... More freedomy? Liberty, Fuck Yeah? Dunno...)
rootusrootus 2 days ago [-]
> it is beyond fascinating to many of us that majority of people / politicians / entities in USA do not want to do it.
A lot of us do, I think what happened is that a majority have decided it is a political loser. It reliably spins up republicans and gets them to the polls, probably even more so than abortion. It costs a lot of political capital with near zero hope for meaningful action. So progressives have prioritized issues with broader appeal (and still somehow fail most of the time, despite what appears to be much broader appeal).
> turning children schools into dystopian fortresses with metal detectors and armed teachers and security guards
In some places. That's perhaps part of the issue. My suburban schools lock the doors, and that's about it. No metal detectors or turn stiles. They have like two security guards for a thousand students and no cops, just a liaison at the local PD if something comes up. The school does not feel like a fortress, nor a dystopia. So this gets written off as a big city problem.
Which poses the question, is it predominantly a big city problem? What fraction of gun violence in school is gang violence? The AR15-wielding mass shooters get a lot of press, but if we want the violence to drop meaningfully then we are probably wasting time over-focusing on that. And then the question, will taking guns way from the gangs solve the problem? Or do we have a socioeconomic and culture problem? Talk about hard to solve.
soco 2 days ago [-]
Maybe it would be time for us non-Americans to finally accept and move on. Accept that most Americans are totally fine with their kids getting murdered at school, gun violence on the streets and whatever else. And that wearing vests on the streets, living in fortresses and giving up communities is the future they at least accept, if not straight-out favour. As much as we like to yap here, they're adults in a democratic country and fully able to choose what they want.
lambdaone 2 days ago [-]
Interpreting the Second Amendment in a sane way might be a start. Its wording seems clear to me: it establishes the need for a well-regulated militia as necessary to the security of the state, and grants the right to bear arms in that context. No aspect of the current situation is "well-regulated", nor are citizens, apart from a tiny number of fringe groups, organized into militias, and those that are could scarcely be called well-regulated.
However, the current intpretation seems to be solely in terms of the end of that sentence, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed", with no context at all, and I think in a way that has a quite different meaning to what was intended.
And yet, when you come down to it, the right of the people to bear arms is not absolute and is "infringed" all the time in that sense; you don't allow automatic weapons to be used without special licenses, you don't allow small children to buy guns, you don't allow felons to own them. So it seems that the right to bear arms is not totally unrestricted; it's just a matter of where you draw the line, and I think the first part of the 2A is clear about the context in which that line was meant to be drawn.
I don't have any issue with an armed citizenry for national defense. Look at the Swiss; they are legally required to be armed, but in a highly regulated fashion, exactly so they have a citizen army ready to roll at any time.
This seems to me to be what the founders had in mind, not a free-for-all in which guns are available to all in an uncontrolled way.
roryirvine 2 days ago [-]
That's something that's always puzzled me.
The impression I get as a non-American is that the "well-regulated militia" bit is more or less ignored - like you're meant to register with your local militia in order to have a gun, but no-one actually checks up on it?
So why not tighten that up?
Define a well-regulated militia as being one that requires, say, 200 hours of training to join, followed by a further 100 hours a year thereafter. Include annual proficiency testing and mental health assessments. Mandatory RFID tagging of all weapons. Minimum standards for safe gun and ammunition storage, backed up with regular inspections. Insurance for damage or injury to third parties. If you fail any of that, you're turfed out, and not allowed to have a gun.
Really basic minimal steps like those would have a greater impact than any weird chemical weapons drone system, and if you make the militiae themselves pay for it, it would be essentially cost neutral.
archagon 2 days ago [-]
It’s because the stupid amendment is ambiguous.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Technically, it could be argued that the Militia clause is descriptive of one particular application of guns, not prescriptive of their every Constitutional use. But there has been endless disagreement on this subject.
rootusrootus 2 days ago [-]
The founders didn't think we ought to have a standing army, either, and a militia of ordinary citizens was their answer. So I guess first we will need to bring back militias made from ordinary citizens, first, and then we can debate how that changes the applicability of the amendment. Not to mention the definition of well-regulated, which I think (hope) most people interested in this issue understand.
vlod 2 days ago [-]
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jimt1234 2 days ago [-]
"I think it's worth it. It's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment..." -Charlie Kirk
gmueckl 2 days ago [-]
How can someone say they are "pro life" and at the same time believe this bizarre inhuman nonsense?
nec4b 2 days ago [-]
What does e.g. Switzerland do with the guns so they don't have such incidents event though the gun ownership is high? Or do you think guns are the issue and not the culture?
amazingamazing 2 days ago [-]
What do you want the USA to do? Keep in mind shooting kids is illegal. Feel free to share your proposal.
Fwiw guns should have never been allowed to spread to this extent but undoing this is nigh impossible
vlod 2 days ago [-]
It's not something that you can just wave a magic wand. The steps to change the constitution is really really hard (deliberately).
conception 2 days ago [-]
They don’t seem to mind on the other amendments.
Arodex 2 days ago [-]
The Supreme Court likes to play games with words and disregards precedent. Expand the court and shove "well-regulated militia" down their throats. Problem solved.
vlod 2 days ago [-]
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nonethewiser 2 days ago [-]
You could ban guns completely and you’d still have to deal with active shooters. There are 500M guns in the USA. Those dont just disappear.
Its idiotic not to harden targets. The best way to do that’s debatable, but schools should be hardened.
ofjcihen 2 days ago [-]
Having to think of schools as “soft targets” in a first world country is absolutely wild.
GaggiX 2 days ago [-]
They should give every student a gun at this point (/s because I feel like someone would agree with me).
Edit: everyone should also wear a bulletproof vest at minimum. Desks should be equipped with reactive armor to defend against anti-tank warheads. A Phalanx C-RAM will be installed on the roof next to the AC units.
blooalien 2 days ago [-]
All fantastic ideas! I bet you we could get our illustrious U.S. "Department of War" right on that without too much effort spent tryin' to convince 'em.
theGeatZhopa 2 days ago [-]
I proposed to equip the drones with explosive load instead of pepper spray. Much more effective and faster on stopping the shooting. And have at least 3 drones pursuing the active shooter (3 per shooter).
conception 2 days ago [-]
“We’ve tried absolutely nothing and we’re out of ideas!”
It’s also idiotic to not support mental health restrictions, gun violence research, liability but the well (russian) funded NRA isn’t a fan anymore so here we are.
refulgentis 2 days ago [-]
We have a corrupt Supreme Court that transmutated the Constitution’s “well-organized militia” into “any individual”, combined with that and the Paranoid Style (Richard Hofstadter) of our politics, there’s absolutely 0 that can happen.
influx 2 days ago [-]
More Europeans die from lack of air conditioning than people in the US die from guns.
>The European heat death figures are based on modeled "excess deaths"—a standard epidemiological approach that tries to capture everyone who died earlier than they would have in cooler conditions, including from cardiovascular disease, stroke, and respiratory failure, which casts a wide net. "But the US number," Ritchie wrote, "isn't based on this type of modeling; it's based on heat deaths recorded on death certificates." That's a far narrower count which only captures cases where a physician specifically wrote heat as the cause of death. The result is that the two figures being compared are not measuring the same thing. "If you used death certificate figures for Europe," Ritchie wrote, "they'd be far lower."
Just citing it because some people don't even seem to read the article they just linked.
api 2 days ago [-]
People don’t evaluate risks based on stats. They do it based on vibes. We do have a disproportionate amount of gun violence for a developed nation but statistically it’s still a very low risk.
I recall pointing this out back during the post 9/11 terror panic. The odds of dying in a terrorist attack were still phenomenally low even after 9/11. It would have taken a relentless stream of constant 9/11 scale attacks to even approach automobile or drug overdose deaths.
atmavatar 2 days ago [-]
This is a good point, so I'd like to provide some additional context.
There were 2,977 victims in the 9/11 attacks. This doesn't come close to cracking the top 10 leading causes of death, which are annual numbers.
The top 2 are Heart Disease at 683K and Cancer at 619K.
For terrorism to be an equivalent threat, 9/11 scale attacks would need to occur ~230 times a year, or just shy of 2 out of every 3 days.
Is there some sort of astroturf campaign going on about this? I have never seen so many comments about this in random places as I have in the last month.
red-iron-pine 2 days ago [-]
1) clicks == money, and AI can be everywhere
2) RU has a vested interest in disparaging everything European, all the time, as part of their disruption and demoralization campaigns.
vanderZwan 2 days ago [-]
I fail to understand why this should make the lack of US action on gun control any more justifiable.
Per your linked article:
> But then comes the adjustment the viral chart skips entirely: when Ritchie controls for population, expressing both figures as rates per 100,000 people, the picture shifts. "Gun deaths in the US are now slightly larger than European heat death rates," she wrote.
> I think this comparison is a bit silly," she wrote, "but sympathize with the overall sentiment." Fewer gun deaths in America would not make European heat deaths acceptable, or vice versa. What the data is actually showing, she argued, is something simpler: status quo bias. "Both places take the status quo as a given"—a high-mortality situation in one domain that each society would never accept in another.
gmueckl 2 days ago [-]
Well, the US does have one of the outsized shares in the causes of climate change, which is now resulting in these heat waves in the northern hemisphere (US included). Don't throw stones when you're sitting in a glass house.
Its impressive that US schools are adopting drone warfare quicker than some NATO allies.
rockskon 2 days ago [-]
ETA until a drone pepper sprays an innocent student or teacher?
fhdkweig 2 days ago [-]
ETA until a shooter brings a mask? They spend weeks if not months gathering guns and bullets. Oh noes, they have buy one more thing off the web.
2 days ago [-]
ranger_danger 2 days ago [-]
ETA until a student presses the button when the teacher isn't looking
jimt1234 2 days ago [-]
Does Polymarket allow wagering on school shooting?
vibrio 2 days ago [-]
Wtf world do we live in that this sentence exists.
blooalien 2 days ago [-]
The world where entirely too many of our "leaders" and their "cult members" wish for the "Mad Max" future rather than the "Star Trek" one.
red-iron-pine 2 days ago [-]
mad max has aesthetics; they're hoping for 1984
blooalien 2 days ago [-]
Mad Max + 1984 + Terminator + Fahrenheit 451 all rolled together into one fantabulous dystopian death planet.
red-iron-pine 2 days ago [-]
wtf world do we live in where this could very even sort of be a possibility?
cyberpunk dystopia shit
__MatrixMan__ 2 days ago [-]
...or perhaps one guilty of thoughtcrime.
roody15 1 days ago [-]
This is just a waste of tax payer money and will have zero impact on safety. If anything malfunctioning pepper spraying drones is more likely than an active shooter.
kazinator 2 days ago [-]
This idiotic idea that must have come from a Gemini chat session will backfire in a real incident. Of course the perpetrator will know about the drones and be prepared for them, e.g. with a face mask. Conveniently for them, the pepper spray will confuse and incapacitate their targets, leading to more casualties.
If you're going to accept not being able to take guns away from the perpetrators, the only thing that will "work" is their targets being likewise armed, as well as trained in firearm combat in close quarters and outside, as well as psychologically trained to handle the real situation and not freeze, tremble or hesitate.
No passive gimmicks will stop an armed perpetrator, unless he doesn't know about their existence and is not prepared for their deployment, which is a foolish assumption to rely on.
red-iron-pine 2 days ago [-]
> Conveniently for them, the pepper spray will confuse and incapacitate their targets, leading to more casualties.
this is legitimate concern.
kids hiding in a crawl space out of sight start coughing because the drone starts spraying pepper spray / tear gas.
shooter has a mask and is mostly unfazed and now knows where those poor kids are hiding...
tokai 2 days ago [-]
>be prepared for them
Hasn't that been a problem with active shooter drills? That future shooters also get drilled.
kazinator 2 days ago [-]
It's all pretty absurd, of course. Then we are calculating that the shooter will be outnumbered, which won't guarantee that there are no casualties on the defending side.
I'm saying that's what stems from accepting that there are going to be shooters with easy access to guns, such that we're not gonna do anything about that.
hyperhello 2 days ago [-]
If a person truly, really, honestly wants to kill soemone then they will be dead. The benefit of the Swiss cheese model is that most people who have that level of focus tend to be producing benefits to their lives somewhere else.
nonethewiser 2 days ago [-]
Whether they will be effective or not I dont know. But something tells me you dont know more about this than the people deploying them.
kazinator 2 days ago [-]
Right; if I were a properly humble intellectual, I would be writing things like "whether the pepper spray drones will be effective or not, I don't know", rather than calling them out as a cockamamie idea that will obviously backfire.
fhdkweig 2 days ago [-]
The people deploying them know how to make money off people's fears and the "we have to do something" mentality.
ndsipa_pomu 2 days ago [-]
Seems fairly obvious that the people deploying them know how flawed the idea is, but there's money on the table for them to ignore the obvious flaws.
majorchord 2 days ago [-]
Why is it always a Lord of the Rings-named company that has some seemingly-evil authoritarian agenda? I've seen Palantir, Anduril, Rivendell, Durin, Sauron, Valar, Lembas, Ereborn, and multiple Mithrils.
phs318u 2 days ago [-]
Because their CEO's all want to be Sauron (or Morgoth).
Vote #1 Aragorn.
morninglight 2 days ago [-]
Is there any way to buy guns online and have them shipped directly to your doorstep?
Why not instead focus on issues that cause people to choose to become shooters? Isn't that the fundamental issue. Not the tools used?
NopIdoN 2 days ago [-]
Don't those schools have sprinkler systems they basically never use?
2 days ago [-]
ranger_danger 2 days ago [-]
And what happens if a parent disagrees with this policy and does not want their child in a school with weaponized drones?
fhdkweig 2 days ago [-]
Parents homeschool or private school their children for lesser reasons.
hungryhobbit 2 days ago [-]
The real question here isn't "why are we sacrificing the education of the next generation to buy tools that make us feel safe but (logically, statistically) will only prevent one in a million child deaths?" ... the answer to that is a Simpsons meme ("won't someone think of the children?").
The real question is ... who is stoking the irrational fear in the first place, and how do they benefit by doing so?
nonethewiser 2 days ago [-]
What are you talking about? Schools are targets for shooters. Sad but certainly not fake.
pjscott 2 days ago [-]
There are school shootings and they’re certainly awful. Similarly, people sometimes get struck by lightning, and this is awful too. But if your goal is to prevent deaths, rather than to focus on the things that make for the most lurid news stories, then there are boring things like road safety that loom much larger in the numbers than they do in the public imagination. Here are some numbers on causes of death for children and adolescents in the US, reported by the CDC:
Figures for deaths from school shootings are harder to come by, since it seems like all the sources are trying to push some political narrative or other, but the highest numbers I could find were in the low double digits per year (on average). Preventing those doesn’t strike me as a high-priority use of limited death-prevention resources.
rationalist 2 days ago [-]
For a lot of people, emotions are more important than pragmatism.
Tadpole9181 2 days ago [-]
From your own link, there are 12,000 injury related deaths. Of those, over 1/3 are firearms related and 1/3 of those are homicides. They may not be school shootings, but damn does that seem related to the second word.
Anyway, to answer your question: because we already do a lot to stop the other causes. Cars have oodles of safety regulations, for instance. Home pools have rules on covers in many states, lifeguards are placed at water features. But we can't just snap our fingers and stop all car deaths, or cure all disease.
Meanwhile shooting deaths are an entirely artificial problem, which we actively do less than nothing to solve. Both by avoiding root cause fixes - not only avoiding addressing mental health, but actively encouraging bullying of minorities like trans students - but also avoiding regulation of the most effective tools (guns).
And, just a final point, humans are human. A kid dying in a tragic accident or disease is heartbreaking. But a dozen kids being eviscerated on Live TV repeatedly for someone's entire adult life, with tens of millions of people having the audacity to say "get over it, we refuse to talk about this" or "even "it's a hoax"? That's enraging.
We are emotional animals, but I'm more than happy that we try to leverage our empathy to make the world a better place. We can do more than one thing at a time, after all. For instance, under your argument, nobody should have bothered inventing amber alerts because it doesn't save hundreds of kids per year.
fittingopposite 2 days ago [-]
US is just entirely broken. Why don't you fix the underlying issues (guns) and not trying to ducktape the symptoms.
thefz 2 days ago [-]
Ah, if only other countries resolved this problem successfully.
Dwedit 2 days ago [-]
Shooters or protesters?
AngryData 2 days ago [-]
Instead of spending money on educating people and making society better, lets spend our money on worthless highly overpriced gimmicks that achieve nothing. /s
theGeatZhopa 2 days ago [-]
Equip them with explosive load and make them pursue the shooters like kamikaze drones. That would be effective and with less side effects like with pepper spray & wrong eyes of unrelated /s
And then, you need communicating 3 drones at least. If the shooter decides to run away and run into a room locking the door, then the first drone is making the hole,the second it's job and the third is waiting outside for the shooter who possibly might escape the room.
I see it as natural evolution of this. Weapons can't be forbidden. It's a human right /s
soco 2 days ago [-]
Why not putting weapons on the drones themselves? Little ground tanks with revolving turrets spewing bullets (and fire!) in the approximate direction of the shooter and their hostages, now that's a powerful deterrent image, yeehaw!
cyanydeez 2 days ago [-]
to waste money instead of education or gun control. the miracle of propaganda
wildzzz 2 days ago [-]
These are being bought at the county/district level or even the individual schools. Gun control is legislated at the state or federal level. The people making the decision to buy these have effectively zero control over gun laws.
valleyer 2 days ago [-]
The article mentions that, in Georgia, funding for these came from the state budget and even quotes a state legislator on the committee on the education appropriations committee.
It also mentions that the effort is "spearheaded" (whatever that means) by the state legislature in Florida.
cyanydeez 2 days ago [-]
yeah, no, i get the grift.
nonethewiser 2 days ago [-]
How is a school corporation supposed to implement gun control?
UltraSane 2 days ago [-]
This is a incredibly US specific headline.
diego_moita 2 days ago [-]
> Schools are adding pepper-spraying drones to help combat active shooters
Schools in the U.S.; this is what the U.S. are getting into.
Meanwhile, the majority of the civilized world solves this with gun control. Americans can't do gun control just because of fetishism for their obsolete Constitution.
Try to explain to Americans that their Constitution was written before the Industrial Revolution and cheap ubiquitous guns, during a war, when the overwhelming majority of the population was rural. Try to explain that when Americans try to do nation building (Japan, Iraq, Afghanistan) they choose political frameworks completely different from the American Constitution.
They won't accept it. They venerate their Constitution just as blindly as the Bible, another obsolete document.
AaronAPU 2 days ago [-]
Our country is better than yours because of the constitution
rationalist 2 days ago [-]
Proud American here, I don't think your comment is particularly helpful. Better can be very subjective and a country is not going to better in every single aspect; the other country will certainly have some aspects where they will be "better".
diego_moita 2 days ago [-]
> Our country is better than yours because of the constitution
Well, thank you twice:
* first for confirming my criticism that Americans venerate their constitution blindly
* second for staying in your country and not coming to mine
nonethewiser 2 days ago [-]
Idk, I think the constitution is pretty awesome.
2 days ago [-]
nec4b 2 days ago [-]
>Meanwhile, the majority of the civilized world solves this with gun control.
I don't know what constitutes the civilized world for you, but in Western Europe kids lately get knifed, beaten to death or driven over by vehicles. Also Czech Republic or Switzerland also have a high gun ownership without the shootings.
Rendered at 06:43:54 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
Next stop - magic incantations to bestow bulletproof status on schoolkids
And should it come to an actual active shooter, the response needs to be a properly equipped and trained police force acting against it rather than sitting it out outside the building. That is not the proverbial "good guy with a gun" because that's implied to be a random untrained civilian on the scene.
They already sell Kevlar backpacks
Even Australia, the poster child for instituting draconian restrictions in response to tragedy, has vast numbers of illegal (and legal) weapons still in civilian hands. So clearly that isn't the answer.
So I want to know what your easy solution is.
It has certainly always been painted that way, particularly in US media driven by NRA framings.
An alternative description might be that Australia simply (almost but not quite) made gun regulation uniform across all states and territories.
At the time of the Port Arthur massacre all the states with larger populations had gun regulation, much like they had car and truck regulations - paperwork on ownership, licencing, etc.
Two relatively low population states, Queensland and Tasmania, had no regulation and territories had zero to mixed regulation.
Following a then world record lone shooter event in Tasmania the public pretty much overwhelmingly supported uniform regulation across the country- which meant imposing much the same laws as were then current in Western Australia on the alternative reality of Queensland.
Much of the buy back went towards buying back old guns and unused extra just in case guns that owners decided weren't actually worth formally licencing and paying annual fees (like a car rego) for.
The result of near uniform gun regulation across the country, all sales tracked, etc. was a decrease in gun incidents and two decades of near zero mass shooting events.
Quite an assertion.
What Australia is doing works by one measure that matters: number of people killed by a gun. In 2024 the gun murder rates were:
US: 4.5 per 100,000
AU: 0.09 per 100,000
Ratio: 50
Source: https://www.ussc.edu.au/by-the-numbers-stark-contrast-in-aus...
Australia didn't confiscate vast numbers of guns by violence. It introduced a buyback scheme, which a lot of gun owners took up. The buyback was "an offer they couldn't refuse" for classes of firearms that were banned, but once it was done it meant it was more tractable to keep firearms in check. The big thing is did was reduce the number of households that contained a firearm even if some of the remaining (paranoid?) license holders increased their number of guns.
Source: https://www.sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2021/04/28/new-g...
You must have misunderstood the assertion, then. I will attempt to clarify.
- Australia tried to get rid of guns, still has millions. Several hundred thousand of them illegal.
- Australia has a much lower firearms homicide rate, despite still having quite a lot of guns. Not the same ratio as the US, sure, but 4.5M guns for 28M people is still fairly prevalent and available.
- So the rate 1:50 ratio is not easily explained by simply reducing the number of guns in circulation. Something else is going on. Something harder to solve, even, than the second amendment.
False. - Gun regulation was made considerably more uniform.
Here is my actual IRL Australian neighbour legally shooting here in Australia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7owwTz7Z0OE
I think reducing the "saturation" of guns is important, as it is a big driver of people's mindset, whereby they see a gun as an answer. By "saturation, I mean the number owned, their availability, their visibility, their promotion and so on. The US is a standout in ownership, in that it has almost twice as many civilian firearms per person than the next closest country [1]. I suspect the US is also a standout in the other areas: availability (Walmart, but less than before), visibility (open carry), promotion (NRA).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...
Removing / reducing / "doing something about guns" may well be hard, and it is beyond fascinating to many of us that majority of people / politicians / entities in USA do not want to do it.
In fact, I would say two statements are even complementary - your statement that doing something about guns in usa is hard, is because / as a result of original post that (bewilderingly) most Americans don't want to do it.
(Somehow, turning children schools into dystopian fortresses with metal detectors and armed teachers and security guards and turn stiles and gun drills, pervasive surveillance and trigger-twitchy responses and now drones, is... More freedomy? Liberty, Fuck Yeah? Dunno...)
A lot of us do, I think what happened is that a majority have decided it is a political loser. It reliably spins up republicans and gets them to the polls, probably even more so than abortion. It costs a lot of political capital with near zero hope for meaningful action. So progressives have prioritized issues with broader appeal (and still somehow fail most of the time, despite what appears to be much broader appeal).
> turning children schools into dystopian fortresses with metal detectors and armed teachers and security guards
In some places. That's perhaps part of the issue. My suburban schools lock the doors, and that's about it. No metal detectors or turn stiles. They have like two security guards for a thousand students and no cops, just a liaison at the local PD if something comes up. The school does not feel like a fortress, nor a dystopia. So this gets written off as a big city problem.
Which poses the question, is it predominantly a big city problem? What fraction of gun violence in school is gang violence? The AR15-wielding mass shooters get a lot of press, but if we want the violence to drop meaningfully then we are probably wasting time over-focusing on that. And then the question, will taking guns way from the gangs solve the problem? Or do we have a socioeconomic and culture problem? Talk about hard to solve.
However, the current intpretation seems to be solely in terms of the end of that sentence, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed", with no context at all, and I think in a way that has a quite different meaning to what was intended.
And yet, when you come down to it, the right of the people to bear arms is not absolute and is "infringed" all the time in that sense; you don't allow automatic weapons to be used without special licenses, you don't allow small children to buy guns, you don't allow felons to own them. So it seems that the right to bear arms is not totally unrestricted; it's just a matter of where you draw the line, and I think the first part of the 2A is clear about the context in which that line was meant to be drawn.
I don't have any issue with an armed citizenry for national defense. Look at the Swiss; they are legally required to be armed, but in a highly regulated fashion, exactly so they have a citizen army ready to roll at any time.
This seems to me to be what the founders had in mind, not a free-for-all in which guns are available to all in an uncontrolled way.
The impression I get as a non-American is that the "well-regulated militia" bit is more or less ignored - like you're meant to register with your local militia in order to have a gun, but no-one actually checks up on it?
So why not tighten that up?
Define a well-regulated militia as being one that requires, say, 200 hours of training to join, followed by a further 100 hours a year thereafter. Include annual proficiency testing and mental health assessments. Mandatory RFID tagging of all weapons. Minimum standards for safe gun and ammunition storage, backed up with regular inspections. Insurance for damage or injury to third parties. If you fail any of that, you're turfed out, and not allowed to have a gun.
Really basic minimal steps like those would have a greater impact than any weird chemical weapons drone system, and if you make the militiae themselves pay for it, it would be essentially cost neutral.
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Technically, it could be argued that the Militia clause is descriptive of one particular application of guns, not prescriptive of their every Constitutional use. But there has been endless disagreement on this subject.
Fwiw guns should have never been allowed to spread to this extent but undoing this is nigh impossible
Its idiotic not to harden targets. The best way to do that’s debatable, but schools should be hardened.
Edit: everyone should also wear a bulletproof vest at minimum. Desks should be equipped with reactive armor to defend against anti-tank warheads. A Phalanx C-RAM will be installed on the roof next to the AC units.
It’s also idiotic to not support mental health restrictions, gun violence research, liability but the well (russian) funded NRA isn’t a fan anymore so here we are.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/europe-heat-wave...
Just citing it because some people don't even seem to read the article they just linked.
I recall pointing this out back during the post 9/11 terror panic. The odds of dying in a terrorist attack were still phenomenally low even after 9/11. It would have taken a relentless stream of constant 9/11 scale attacks to even approach automobile or drug overdose deaths.
There were 2,977 victims in the 9/11 attacks. This doesn't come close to cracking the top 10 leading causes of death, which are annual numbers.
The top 2 are Heart Disease at 683K and Cancer at 619K.
For terrorism to be an equivalent threat, 9/11 scale attacks would need to occur ~230 times a year, or just shy of 2 out of every 3 days.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_September_11...
See: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.htm
2) RU has a vested interest in disparaging everything European, all the time, as part of their disruption and demoralization campaigns.
Per your linked article:
> But then comes the adjustment the viral chart skips entirely: when Ritchie controls for population, expressing both figures as rates per 100,000 people, the picture shifts. "Gun deaths in the US are now slightly larger than European heat death rates," she wrote.
> I think this comparison is a bit silly," she wrote, "but sympathize with the overall sentiment." Fewer gun deaths in America would not make European heat deaths acceptable, or vice versa. What the data is actually showing, she argued, is something simpler: status quo bias. "Both places take the status quo as a given"—a high-mortality situation in one domain that each society would never accept in another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fa9lVwHHqg
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2026/jul/28/school-sho...
https://www.campusguardianangel.com/
https://www.mithrildefense.com/
cyberpunk dystopia shit
If you're going to accept not being able to take guns away from the perpetrators, the only thing that will "work" is their targets being likewise armed, as well as trained in firearm combat in close quarters and outside, as well as psychologically trained to handle the real situation and not freeze, tremble or hesitate.
No passive gimmicks will stop an armed perpetrator, unless he doesn't know about their existence and is not prepared for their deployment, which is a foolish assumption to rely on.
this is legitimate concern.
kids hiding in a crawl space out of sight start coughing because the drone starts spraying pepper spray / tear gas.
shooter has a mask and is mostly unfazed and now knows where those poor kids are hiding...
Hasn't that been a problem with active shooter drills? That future shooters also get drilled.
I'm saying that's what stems from accepting that there are going to be shooters with easy access to guns, such that we're not gonna do anything about that.
Vote #1 Aragorn.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/bKu4c2Y405E
The real question is ... who is stoking the irrational fear in the first place, and how do they benefit by doing so?
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6637963/
Figures for deaths from school shootings are harder to come by, since it seems like all the sources are trying to push some political narrative or other, but the highest numbers I could find were in the low double digits per year (on average). Preventing those doesn’t strike me as a high-priority use of limited death-prevention resources.
Anyway, to answer your question: because we already do a lot to stop the other causes. Cars have oodles of safety regulations, for instance. Home pools have rules on covers in many states, lifeguards are placed at water features. But we can't just snap our fingers and stop all car deaths, or cure all disease.
Meanwhile shooting deaths are an entirely artificial problem, which we actively do less than nothing to solve. Both by avoiding root cause fixes - not only avoiding addressing mental health, but actively encouraging bullying of minorities like trans students - but also avoiding regulation of the most effective tools (guns).
And, just a final point, humans are human. A kid dying in a tragic accident or disease is heartbreaking. But a dozen kids being eviscerated on Live TV repeatedly for someone's entire adult life, with tens of millions of people having the audacity to say "get over it, we refuse to talk about this" or "even "it's a hoax"? That's enraging.
We are emotional animals, but I'm more than happy that we try to leverage our empathy to make the world a better place. We can do more than one thing at a time, after all. For instance, under your argument, nobody should have bothered inventing amber alerts because it doesn't save hundreds of kids per year.
And then, you need communicating 3 drones at least. If the shooter decides to run away and run into a room locking the door, then the first drone is making the hole,the second it's job and the third is waiting outside for the shooter who possibly might escape the room.
I see it as natural evolution of this. Weapons can't be forbidden. It's a human right /s
It also mentions that the effort is "spearheaded" (whatever that means) by the state legislature in Florida.
Schools in the U.S.; this is what the U.S. are getting into.
Meanwhile, the majority of the civilized world solves this with gun control. Americans can't do gun control just because of fetishism for their obsolete Constitution.
Try to explain to Americans that their Constitution was written before the Industrial Revolution and cheap ubiquitous guns, during a war, when the overwhelming majority of the population was rural. Try to explain that when Americans try to do nation building (Japan, Iraq, Afghanistan) they choose political frameworks completely different from the American Constitution.
They won't accept it. They venerate their Constitution just as blindly as the Bible, another obsolete document.
Well, thank you twice:
* first for confirming my criticism that Americans venerate their constitution blindly
* second for staying in your country and not coming to mine
I don't know what constitutes the civilized world for you, but in Western Europe kids lately get knifed, beaten to death or driven over by vehicles. Also Czech Republic or Switzerland also have a high gun ownership without the shootings.