> We considered this but decided not to for several reasons:
> You'd probably lose the charger before the battery runs out!
> Adding charge circuitry and including a charger would make the product larger and more expensive.
> You send it back to us to recycle.
I don't think this is true. The charging circuit could have been in the charger itself. To provide access to the battery, one of the terminals could be behind a transistor enabled by the micro. The charger could then send a signal to the ring to unlock the battery terminal. Then all you needed to do was expose two/three pads externally.
Yeah, that's really not great at all! From their website:
> Wait, it's single use?
Yes. We know this sounds a bit odd, but in this particular circumstance we believe it's the best solution to the given set of constraints
I don't want to be too harsh, since it seems like the pebble team are working hard at producing some exciting tech. But intentionally making a single use device is phenomenally irresponsible in today's climate.
I know they say they'll recycle them, but it'd be naive to expect anything other than a tonne of these becoming e-waste.
NuclearPM 2 minutes ago [-]
What do you mean by “today’s climate”?
irjustin 2 hours ago [-]
Yeah I agree if it was 10 yrs then I would say no need to charge, but apparently it's 2 yrs? In that time frame you could totally recharge it.
I agree losing the charger is actually pretty likely but THAT'S ON ME. For a $75 product, I don't want to consider it a consumable.
So 100% agreed, +$10 add terminals and a special charger.
hennell 2 hours ago [-]
Why can't they just sell the charger separately? If you lose it you buy a new one.
You could even make it a seperate item - buy one with/without the charger, then in 2 years you decide if you want the charger or an upgrade.
donohoe 2 hours ago [-]
I’m also baffled that they didn’t do this. If I am buying something that becomes so precious to my workflow then I don’t want a hardware subscription. I also want peace of mind that the company will not be gone, or the product discontinued in a few years.
jasonjayr 2 hours ago [-]
IIRC EU markets now mandate the USB-C charger for devices (which is not a bad thing, too many throwaway custom chargers....). Adding the port, the USB-C PD circuitry may take up too much room. I think this approach would require some kind of custom charging cradle (probably usb-c connected..). Is having a custom usb-c adapter to charge a device allowed under the rules?
tjoff 52 minutes ago [-]
For these kinds of devices, yes.
svl7 2 hours ago [-]
A piezo button would be neat, might be able to generate enough electricity for each use without having to rely on a battery at all. Not sure about the form factor here though.
rationalist 2 hours ago [-]
Hopefully version two is rechargeable.
This is version one, I'm not particularly worried as I will probably upgrade to version two by the time the battery runs out.
lukeify 4 hours ago [-]
> Is there a warranty?
> Yes, we warrant against manufacturing defects for 30 days after you receive your order.
Is this the shortest warranty on a consumer electronics device ever? What on earth are they thinking.
lawn 4 hours ago [-]
It's also under the minimum EU demands, but I guess they found a loophole or they just hope they won't be fined.
Lalabadie 2 minutes ago [-]
Same in Québec, where the legal minimum for guaranteeing against defects is 1 year (enforced at both the manufacturer and seller).
Usually the terms will use wording like "30 days or the minimum applicable by law".
hn8726 4 hours ago [-]
EU doesn't impose a minimum manufacturer warranty period. What it imposes is a _seller_ guarantee, for which the manufacturer's limited warranty conditions don't really apply directly anyway. Many companies will offer a 2-year warranty because they know that's how long they need to support the buyer anyway, but I've often seen conditions like "2 year warranty for EU, 1yr in US".
Anyway, iiuc pebble is not doing anything illegal as long as they don't refuse seller warranty for these 2 years
tpm 3 hours ago [-]
In this case the seller is American and shipping from Asia, so while the warranty should be 2 years in the EU, there is no way to force them as they have no presence in the EU.
dymk 1 hours ago [-]
The pressure is “you can’t sell this here”
tpm 43 minutes ago [-]
They are selling it though. If I (from the EU) buy something directly from the US (or China), I don't expect EU conditions to apply. It's quite common and it's fine if both sides of the transaction understand the deal.
lawn 4 hours ago [-]
I'm not quite sure what that implies. That they have to support EU customers (since they sell directly to them) for 2 years and their "30 day warranty claim" is overridden?
graemep 4 hours ago [-]
I think its the same as the UK. The person who sells to the customer is responsible, so if they sell to a retailer who sells to users then the retailer is responsible. If they sell directly the warranty terms cannot override the law so they are responsible.
spwa4 4 hours ago [-]
You realize the EU let Chinese sellers sell lead-containing painted toys to EU babies for 12 years despite endless warnings, right? They will not act unless forced or it's easy enough.
The EU came from the "European Union of coal and steel". It's a business first, not a government. And yes, they've really deceived a lot of people about this.
That's why we have the DMA ... except for Apple ... except for Google, as if that doesn't negate the entire law.
That's why we have the GPDR, except for (just for the Netherlands) any company the government wants https://www.avgregisterrijksoverheid.nl/ (specifically this negates the purpose of the GPDR. The first purpose of it was to protect your medical data from insurers, taxes, police and courts, so the insurer cannot decide you're committing fraud based on your medical data, or raise prices for you, or ... for example) well "ministerie-van-sociale-zaken-en-werkgelegenheid" has a specific exemption so they can regulate whether unemployment money can be used for medical treatment, and which ones ... And that's just one example.
graemep 3 hours ago [-]
> The EU came from the "European Union of coal and steel". It's a business first, not a government. And yes, they've really deceived a lot of people about this.
That is true, but omits an important part of the motive for that. The aim was to tie France and Germany together economically to discourage them from going to war again.
It became irrelevant quite quickly due to the cold war and NATO, but it was an important part of what was intended.
bojan 3 hours ago [-]
The toys are the problem because there are so many being imported they can't possibly control them all.
And if the EU tries to do something structural about it the backlash is enormous - look at that 3 euro fee for packages for example.
yde_java 6 hours ago [-]
Feels so fresh to hear their CEO talk so openly and transparently of all the flaws their products still have. Sounds like he's someone very fun to work with.
beefsack 6 hours ago [-]
Nirav from Framework is similar, he speaks openly about compromises they make with their designs and why they make them.
When leaders are both technical and open about these sorts of things it makes me feel like I can trust that they are invested in supporting and improving their products.
consp 4 hours ago [-]
The failure rate waving is quite a stretch though. If you take into account reporting rates and time (since most people do not have the watch for long) I'm quite concerned. And I own a PT2. The "look big number, it's not a problem" does not translate to actual sensible failure rates.
To be clear: 51 broken screens in less than two months results in a yearly failure rate of over 1% which is find quite high for a watch.
idiotsecant 3 hours ago [-]
What would your acceptable failure rate be?
consp 3 hours ago [-]
Less than 1% yoy combined. This is far over that when you combine all failures. Battery degradation is of course excluded.
girvo 7 hours ago [-]
I am so excited for my Round 2. The original Pebble Time Round (20mm w/ brown leather strap) is the single best smartwatch I've ever owned. Can't wait to relive it today haha
koiueo 5 hours ago [-]
I received my Time 2 recently.
The original Time was my first smartwatch, which I used for maybe 7 years, until decided to sell it after briefly switching to iphone.
Since then I was constantly looking for something similar in terms of capabilities and battery life.
I pre-ordered my Time 2 immediately after it opened, but since then I started regretting my decision. It's quite an expensive watch, and I got used to living without it, so it the spending seemed unjustified.
But all regrets went away when I received the package. It's a good product. Excited for you too!
onli 2 hours ago [-]
But its so cheap compared to other watches, analog watches I mean. And it is also competitively priced against other smartwatches, isn't it? The price really shouldn't feel all that bad.
embedding-shape 6 hours ago [-]
Anyone tried/ended up using their Index 01 in any substantial way? Looks interesting but the non-changable battery turned me off a bit, now this post reminded me of the little ring again, looks handy for taking quick voice memos.
mellosouls 5 hours ago [-]
I'm on ze list but not a beta tester so haven't used it, but as I remember the claim was to expect up to a couple of years life with moderate use; works out about $40 a year so seems ok to me if I mentally model it as a subscription.
Roughly 12 to 15 hours of recording. On average, I use it 10-20 times per day to record 3-6 second thoughts. That's up to 2 years of usage.
Zababa 5 hours ago [-]
"Battery that lasts for years" being actually 12-15 hours of recording is a huge turn off honestly.
>How long does the battery last?
>Roughly 12 to 15 hours of recording. On average, I use it 10-20 times per day to record 3-6 second thoughts. That's up to 2 years of usage.
They then say:
>Wait, it's single use?
>Yes. We know this sounds a bit odd, but in this particular circumstance we believe it's the best solution to the given set of constraints. Other smart rings like Oura cost $250+ and need to be charged every few days. We didn't want to build a device like that. Before the battery runs out, the Pebble app notifies and asks if you'd like to order another ring.
My oura has lasted ~3 years, I recharge it twice a week usually, and I think it has spent way more than 15-20 hours turned on.
Bratmon 15 minutes ago [-]
Wait, so it can record for 12-15 hours, then it dies and there's no way to recharge it?
That's like, horror game flashlight levels of longevity.
wolvoleo 5 hours ago [-]
It's just a big faux pas in this day and age of environmental consciousness really. In my country we used to joke that people would buy a new car because the ashtray was full. This reminds me of that.
Zababa 5 hours ago [-]
I don't really care about the environmental consciousness, my issue is that presenting a product with a battery that lasts for years when it actually lasts 15 to 20 hours makes me feel like I'm being lied to.
wlesieutre 1 hours ago [-]
If it lasts 15 hours of recording and you record on average 5 seconds at a time, that’s about 11000 activations. I think 5 seconds is a pretty conservative estimate, most things I imagine this being useful for would be more looks 2. Easy to see it lasting years in those conditions, but yes you could drain it faster if you used it very heavily.
Zababa 34 minutes ago [-]
This is true, but there's a big difference between saying "15-20 hours battery life, which is 11000 5-seconds activations, which last you a few years with 10 5-seconds activation a day" and "years of battery (btw in small text the real number is given). Especially since they mention that this project is hackable/you can do other things with it, knowing in advance you have something like ~100k button presses means some projects feel perfectly and some others won't really work.
card_zero 5 hours ago [-]
I am restraining myself from mocking this idea of pollution from discarded smart rings. It takes some effort, but I'm being very mature and saying nothing.
Semkas 3 hours ago [-]
You are not restraining yourself from mocking, you are somehow doing something even less conducive and more annoying
wolvoleo 45 minutes ago [-]
It is a small amount of resources yes but all these little bits add up too.
There's a reason that we're banning all types of disposable electronics including vapes.
moritonal 3 hours ago [-]
What is there to mock? Making ten smart rings because each one is consumable sounds worse for the environment than making one that has a simple charging circuit?
3 hours ago [-]
applfanboysbgon 3 hours ago [-]
> other smart rings like Oura cost $250+
It's crazy they manage to say this with a straight face when their product still costs $225. Gee, $225 for a disposable piece of e-waste or $250 for a rechargeable device... but hey, at least it reminds you with an advertisement to spend another $225 before it dies!
goobatrooba 1 hours ago [-]
From the website it seems the ring is $75. So definitely cheaper
chias 3 hours ago [-]
The watch I really want is the Pebble Time 2 with a black-and-white screen.
The Pebble Time 2 is a huge step up from the Pebble 2 Duo in almost every conceivable way, but the contrast ratio on the latter is so much better that I still wear the P2D instead of the PT2, and just resign myself to deal with the lower resolution screen and inferior build quality.
netless 3 hours ago [-]
agree 100%
raffael_de 5 hours ago [-]
owning a time 2. nice watch. but i consider its purchase more as voting with my wallet for future editions. its utility is seriously limited by its dependence on a smartphone. given its size it's rather disappointing that it contains neither mobile, nor wifi, not even gps. while it may be an odd comparison, given my user profile and its feature set it is about as useful as my sensorwatch pro 2 which i really enjoy. i wish there where swappable custom boards for casios with more than three buttons ... the calculator casios would be a dream.
consp 4 hours ago [-]
Mobile, WiFi and GPS would require a substantially bigger battery to achieve the planned 30 days (I get about 25 days). I guess it wasn't a design goal.
raffael_de 3 hours ago [-]
maybe. i don't see the appeal of 30 days battery at the expense of such relevant features. 3 days would be more than enough for me. also, considering that the watch is practically useless without a connected phone, advertising its excessive battery life is questionable.
fooqux 2 hours ago [-]
This is a bit of a hand wave, sorry, but if you're okay with a 3 day battery life and want those features, then maybe the pebble is just not the watch you're looking for? I hear good things about the Garmin watches.
I deeply appreciate the battery life personally. Every time I charge it is an opportunity to forget to put it back on. I can go on a long trip and not worry about packing a charger. I can wear it at night to track sleeping more easily. And probably most importantly, with weeks of life, there's basically zero chance of me being surprised at 9am after leaving the house that my watch is about to die in a couple hours.
donohoe 2 hours ago [-]
> considering that the watch is practically useless without a connected phone
It can still tell you the time. Its primary function is a watch.
whazor 5 hours ago [-]
I got the pebble time 2 now for a month. Pebble is the Casio smartwatch.
The issues are a bit sad. But I will happily upgrade with the discount to the revised version of time 2.
To me, a Pebble is better than an apple watch due to battery life and hack-ability. Especially with the latest AI models it is just your imagination. And with ASK and Notification Forwarding it will be much closer to a Apple Watch in functionality.
wlesieutre 53 seconds ago [-]
> The issues are a bit sad. But I will happily upgrade with the discount to the revised version of time 2.
The what? The only discount mentioned in the article is when they stop replacing cracked glass for free and heavily discount replacements instead.
And the only hardware changes mentioned are making sure they all get assembled correctly.
51Cards 1 hours ago [-]
"But I will happily upgrade with the discount to the revised version of time 2."
Has an updated version been mentioned anywhere?
Jordan-117 5 hours ago [-]
If only iOS didn't gatekeep some of its most useful functions, that would be great.
ddtaylor 4 hours ago [-]
Apple has been gate keeping for decades. It's a fundamental part of their business strategy.
Anyone still expecting anything different is ignoring reality.
It's really not complicated. If you want to continue to be gate kept, use their products and keep giving them your money. If you don't want to be involved with their shady practices, stop giving them your money and using their products.
KORraN 4 hours ago [-]
What functionalities are limited on iOS? I'm curious, because I'm considering Pebble watch as I'm disappointed with Garmin.
whazor 4 hours ago [-]
Now with Pebble you only receive iOS notifications.
Soon in Europe you can reply to notifications via voice.
paweladamczuk 5 hours ago [-]
I wonder if the functionality od Index 01 will also be available via the Pebble watch? I mean, it would be logical to allow that, all it needs is a separate app for the watch. But I didn't find any clear confirmation of this anywhere.
missed the hype ten years ago, but now have a Pebble 2 Duo since about half a year. absolutely love it, although seeing images of the new models makes me a bit jealous. but just being able to see incoming messages on my wrist on a device i have to charge about once a month is so comfortable.
bit of a bummer that the new weather app is not for P2D, but well.
k__ 5 hours ago [-]
Are they still using eink?
_fzslm 21 minutes ago [-]
It's a low power transflective LCD branded as e-paper, not e-ink. So it has none of e-inks downsides (namely low refresh rate and image persistence)
tmilard 4 hours ago [-]
I kind of think so. This is why I believe the battery duration is so good. But it is a better eink display then 10 years ago.
bschwindHN 4 hours ago [-]
Wow, the UI on that weather app is slick! Well done to whoever designed/implemented it.
ghalvatzakis 5 hours ago [-]
I want this so badly, but unfortunately, shipping to Europe comes with unpredictable customs fees.
chias 3 hours ago [-]
I had my PT2 shipped to Germany. Watch cost $225 and then I had to pay an additional $58.54 in taxes / customs fees.
podgorniy 4 hours ago [-]
Cool watch. Have mine for a while. Would recommend. I love battery time (around 2 weeks with my usage patterns with longer backlight time). Love variability and flexibility of watchfaces. Comparing to my usecases of applewatch I am missing "find my phone" (which is mentioned to be under development) and paying with the watch. Yet increased battery life + hackability compensates those for me.
Hacking your own app is also something easily accessible. When I preordered the watch I thought of a breathing app which could be used with closed eyes. App must indicate breathing phase with vibrations. Guess what? In couple days I got first version running and published (couple more weeks of polishing completely transformed the initial version which still has screenshots in the project folder for historical reasons). In case you also want to meditate/box-breach with your pebble here is it free on any charge
finally.... my time 2 should be shipped by the end of the month. I've been waiting for it for ages! can't wait!
rusk 7 hours ago [-]
They’re not going to support legacy pebble by any chance?
MDCore 5 hours ago [-]
Legacy pebbles still work great with rebble.io. I still use my pebble time daily connected to my android phone.
happymellon 5 hours ago [-]
I went through 3 pebbles with the screen corrupting, and sending it back for a refurb.
I'm jealous that yours is still working, and I'm looking forward to getting back in the fold.
My Fitbit Versa that I finally got after the acquisition is definitely spiritually related, but after Google bought Fitbit and got involved it became terrible with bugs.
rusk 3 hours ago [-]
They did the decent thing with the Versa and refunded everybody.
rf15 5 hours ago [-]
They... kind of do, software-side at least. What kind of support are you looking for?
reddozen 1 hours ago [-]
I don't know why HN is obsessed with whatever this product is (literally never heard of it) but I'm getting strong juicero vibes. Is this all botted up votes hoping for more VC slop or...?
nticompass 14 minutes ago [-]
You've never heard of "the most funded project in Kickstarter history"?
This project is the continuation of Pebble watches after they sold their assets to Fibit, Fitbit got bought by Google and Google open sourced Pebble software.
> Why can't it be recharged?
> We considered this but decided not to for several reasons:
> You'd probably lose the charger before the battery runs out!
> Adding charge circuitry and including a charger would make the product larger and more expensive.
> You send it back to us to recycle.
I don't think this is true. The charging circuit could have been in the charger itself. To provide access to the battery, one of the terminals could be behind a transistor enabled by the micro. The charger could then send a signal to the ring to unlock the battery terminal. Then all you needed to do was expose two/three pads externally.
[1] https://repebble.com/index
> Wait, it's single use? Yes. We know this sounds a bit odd, but in this particular circumstance we believe it's the best solution to the given set of constraints
I don't want to be too harsh, since it seems like the pebble team are working hard at producing some exciting tech. But intentionally making a single use device is phenomenally irresponsible in today's climate.
I know they say they'll recycle them, but it'd be naive to expect anything other than a tonne of these becoming e-waste.
I agree losing the charger is actually pretty likely but THAT'S ON ME. For a $75 product, I don't want to consider it a consumable.
So 100% agreed, +$10 add terminals and a special charger.
You could even make it a seperate item - buy one with/without the charger, then in 2 years you decide if you want the charger or an upgrade.
This is version one, I'm not particularly worried as I will probably upgrade to version two by the time the battery runs out.
> Yes, we warrant against manufacturing defects for 30 days after you receive your order.
Is this the shortest warranty on a consumer electronics device ever? What on earth are they thinking.
Usually the terms will use wording like "30 days or the minimum applicable by law".
The EU came from the "European Union of coal and steel". It's a business first, not a government. And yes, they've really deceived a lot of people about this.
That's why we have the DMA ... except for Apple ... except for Google, as if that doesn't negate the entire law.
That's why we have the GPDR, except for (just for the Netherlands) any company the government wants https://www.avgregisterrijksoverheid.nl/ (specifically this negates the purpose of the GPDR. The first purpose of it was to protect your medical data from insurers, taxes, police and courts, so the insurer cannot decide you're committing fraud based on your medical data, or raise prices for you, or ... for example) well "ministerie-van-sociale-zaken-en-werkgelegenheid" has a specific exemption so they can regulate whether unemployment money can be used for medical treatment, and which ones ... And that's just one example.
That is true, but omits an important part of the motive for that. The aim was to tie France and Germany together economically to discourage them from going to war again.
It became irrelevant quite quickly due to the cold war and NATO, but it was an important part of what was intended.
And if the EU tries to do something structural about it the backlash is enormous - look at that 3 euro fee for packages for example.
When leaders are both technical and open about these sorts of things it makes me feel like I can trust that they are invested in supporting and improving their products.
To be clear: 51 broken screens in less than two months results in a yearly failure rate of over 1% which is find quite high for a watch.
The original Time was my first smartwatch, which I used for maybe 7 years, until decided to sell it after briefly switching to iphone.
Since then I was constantly looking for something similar in terms of capabilities and battery life.
I pre-ordered my Time 2 immediately after it opened, but since then I started regretting my decision. It's quite an expensive watch, and I got used to living without it, so it the spending seemed unjustified.
But all regrets went away when I received the package. It's a good product. Excited for you too!
Update: ah, here (obv the founders claim):
https://repebble.com/index
How long does the battery last?
Roughly 12 to 15 hours of recording. On average, I use it 10-20 times per day to record 3-6 second thoughts. That's up to 2 years of usage.
>How long does the battery last?
>Roughly 12 to 15 hours of recording. On average, I use it 10-20 times per day to record 3-6 second thoughts. That's up to 2 years of usage.
They then say:
>Wait, it's single use?
>Yes. We know this sounds a bit odd, but in this particular circumstance we believe it's the best solution to the given set of constraints. Other smart rings like Oura cost $250+ and need to be charged every few days. We didn't want to build a device like that. Before the battery runs out, the Pebble app notifies and asks if you'd like to order another ring.
My oura has lasted ~3 years, I recharge it twice a week usually, and I think it has spent way more than 15-20 hours turned on.
That's like, horror game flashlight levels of longevity.
There's a reason that we're banning all types of disposable electronics including vapes.
It's crazy they manage to say this with a straight face when their product still costs $225. Gee, $225 for a disposable piece of e-waste or $250 for a rechargeable device... but hey, at least it reminds you with an advertisement to spend another $225 before it dies!
The Pebble Time 2 is a huge step up from the Pebble 2 Duo in almost every conceivable way, but the contrast ratio on the latter is so much better that I still wear the P2D instead of the PT2, and just resign myself to deal with the lower resolution screen and inferior build quality.
I deeply appreciate the battery life personally. Every time I charge it is an opportunity to forget to put it back on. I can go on a long trip and not worry about packing a charger. I can wear it at night to track sleeping more easily. And probably most importantly, with weeks of life, there's basically zero chance of me being surprised at 9am after leaving the house that my watch is about to die in a couple hours.
It can still tell you the time. Its primary function is a watch.
The issues are a bit sad. But I will happily upgrade with the discount to the revised version of time 2.
To me, a Pebble is better than an apple watch due to battery life and hack-ability. Especially with the latest AI models it is just your imagination. And with ASK and Notification Forwarding it will be much closer to a Apple Watch in functionality.
The what? The only discount mentioned in the article is when they stop replacing cracked glass for free and heavily discount replacements instead.
And the only hardware changes mentioned are making sure they all get assembled correctly.
Has an updated version been mentioned anywhere?
Anyone still expecting anything different is ignoring reality.
It's really not complicated. If you want to continue to be gate kept, use their products and keep giving them your money. If you don't want to be involved with their shady practices, stop giving them your money and using their products.
Soon in Europe you can reply to notifications via voice.
bit of a bummer that the new weather app is not for P2D, but well.
Hacking your own app is also something easily accessible. When I preordered the watch I thought of a breathing app which could be used with closed eyes. App must indicate breathing phase with vibrations. Guess what? In couple days I got first version running and published (couple more weeks of polishing completely transformed the initial version which still has screenshots in the project folder for historical reasons). In case you also want to meditate/box-breach with your pebble here is it free on any charge
https://github.com/podgorniy/pebble-box-breathing
I'm jealous that yours is still working, and I'm looking forward to getting back in the fold. My Fitbit Versa that I finally got after the acquisition is definitely spiritually related, but after Google bought Fitbit and got involved it became terrible with bugs.
This project is the continuation of Pebble watches after they sold their assets to Fibit, Fitbit got bought by Google and Google open sourced Pebble software.