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OpenAI frontier models and Codex are now available on AWS (openai.com)
kylemaxwell 7 hours ago [-]
Every time somebody questions why you might "trust" AWS (or Azure or GCP or whatever), or why you'd pay this premium, I realize they are not accustomed to working in enterprise environments.

In my case, I work at a large enterprise with strict data governance built into customer contracts, and (partly related, partly not) our own governance concerns. Using vendors where you not only have infosec permission, but they are also listed as data processors in our contracts with our customers is the way not to get fired and sued.

If I'm playing around at home, with my own code and data, I can do whatever I want. But with my employer and customer? Absolutely not. It's the same reason we don't use whatever is the flavor of the month frontier model is.

Side hustles and startups just have an entirely different set of constraints and considerations.

gobdovan 2 hours ago [-]
Have you considered checking the actual AWS contract and the limited liability they explicitly stipulate in contracts and even linked docs from marketing materials?

If you read the fine print, you'll notice something funny. You are largely responsible for data loss, SLA claims require you to present concrete evidence, and the remediation you accepted is usually credits for future spend on specifically the same product you lost your data on.

And AWS fine print is actually quite reasonable compared with, say, GCP, where the SLA seems mostly useful so the enterprise acquisition team can say "they have SLA, I can't get fired for choosing them since I did my due diligence!", while GCP can say "you already accepted the proposed remedy when signing the contract, sue us and we'll just point you to it. Thanks for your trust.". [0]

[0] https://docs.cloud.google.com/storage/docs/storage-classes

^ Standard multi-region or dual-region storage has a 99.95% availability SLA, regional Standard has 99.9%, and regional Nearline, Coldline, or Archive can be as low as 99.0%. The credits are 10%, 25%, or 50% of the monthly bill for the affected service tier, with 50% as the aggregate monthly cap, applied to future use. Google also says the customer must request the credit within 30 days or forfeit it.

citrin_ru 1 hours ago [-]
Nobody ever got fired for buying I̵B̵M̵ AWS. Most corporations already use AWS, used to its legal terms and accepted the risk. Any new provider will be scrutinised by legal more than an existing one.
saidnooneever 55 minutes ago [-]
this..it doesnt really matter whats on the contract they all sell same things. in enterprise things just should not get u sacked :p then it workks perfectly.
btown 5 hours ago [-]
On top of this, there's a vast difference between "what do you mean that team spent $1000 on AI in their expense report, what did we get for that?" vs. "oh, the company-wide AWS bill went up by a few percent, let's look into that when we have time." The latter makes projects far more viable.
comandillos 21 minutes ago [-]
In my company is simpler, we deal with data under EU Export Control so we cannot use any US provider due to the CLOUD Act.
glzone1 2 hours ago [-]
The security posture at AWS is different. AI startups are going to get hacked and leak data etc. All the startup webapp builder tools, vscode plugin players etc.

AWS could still be hacked, but they've taken some care to make it a bit less likely, a bit easier to track which customers affected etc. If you dig into AWS logging for example, there is a TON if you turn it on, you can really go back and see who did what to the permissions / environment etc. I imagine they've got pretty good logging of their staffs access to things as well. I had to jump through some hoops once to have their staff on my account.

2 hours ago [-]
raincole 5 hours ago [-]
Or to put it simply, nobody ever got fired for buying IBM.
jimbokun 4 hours ago [-]
-> Microsoft -> AWS.
petesergeant 2 hours ago [-]
I would absolutely fire someone for using Azure without extenuating circumstances.
hdgvhicv 1 hours ago [-]
Are you the CTO of a $1b+ revenue company?
sntran 7 hours ago [-]
I have just moved from a free environment in which I was able to use any AI harnesses or models to a strict enterprise environment.

I was shocked to realize how difficult it has been to have a GitHub CoPilot license on Azure. I mean, they're both Microsoft products. But no, the IT now has to figure out how to set up a GitHub enterprise, link to Azure subscription, and all that.

foolfoolz 5 hours ago [-]
while true, everyone signed this same data privacy agreement with anthropic / openai a long tiem ago
kube-system 1 hours ago [-]
The agreements that Anthropic/OpenAI are pretty general and there’s a lot of use cases they don’t meet.

The list of compliance standards that AWS meets is so big they have a separate product just to deliver the compliance documents. They basically do everything imaginable.

bunderbunder 5 hours ago [-]
It’s not just that. Oftentimes contracts stipulate that the client’s data can’t be transferred across certain boundaries. If you have signed such an agreement, even sending the data to a service on the same cloud provider but in a different region could be a huge compliance violation.
ykl 8 hours ago [-]
If you've used AI coding models in a large corporate setting, you'll know that a lot of big corporate deployments basically require using AWS Bedrock for two simple reasons:

1. Large companies tend to already have an existing relationship with AWS, which makes things way easier to go through vs. setting up a new vendor relationship 2. Large companies tend to have strong internal requirements about making sure that internal data stays under company control. With AWS Bedrock, you can be a lot more confident that what you're feeding into the models is not going to end up in someone's training set somewhere. For where I work, this requirement is a dealbreaker for going directly through OpenAI's API instead of going through AWS Bedrock.

Eridrus 7 hours ago [-]
To go a step further, the reason it's often impossible to add a new vendor if that you've signed a bunch of contracts with your customers saying you're not going to send their data to other vendors in all sorts of various flavors.
a_bonobo 7 hours ago [-]
3. from my opportunity - For many (not all) LLMs, Bedrock gives you control over which country the data stays in. You have no control over that with the Claude API, for example. We do not work in the US and have strong requirements for the data to stay in our country, which Bedrock gives us control over.
regularfry 1 hours ago [-]
4. AWS billing is already cross-charged to different departments per account. Copilot/Claude/Codex would need that setting up all over again, and is (probably) all coming out of a central bucket right now. Switching to Bedrock APIs is really easy, and solves a problem for people high enough up in the organisation that they can insist on it.
kopirgan 7 hours ago [-]
A very interesting comment.

Curious to understand how AI will continue to grow if this is the trend. Assuming most valuable data is behind such firewalls. And whatever is public has been harvested, trained on top of whatever has been acquired illegally (this is a grey area).

Will it become a closed ecosystem without outside input?!

bitmasher9 7 hours ago [-]
The pace of data creation is only increasing, and our capabilities of sharing and storing it is growing as well. Lots of this is out in the open, ready for anyone to crawl and scrape.

There probably is a point of “peak data” where the amount of new data will start decreasing, but that’s likely a 22nd or 24rd century problem.

avianlyric 6 hours ago [-]
Pace of data creation ignores the fact that the majority of the big gains in LLM “intelligence” has come from scraping and feeding in the huge amount of public data that already exists.

Unless we’re producing data on the order of an entire new internet every couple of years, then it’s hard to see how LLMs can achieve further huge leaps in capability compared to training on effectively 0% of the internet vs 100% of the internet.

kopirgan 3 hours ago [-]
That is without going into fact that many already use AI to type out and write stuff. I have a customer in Far East that routinely uses it even for simple emails, he is not so familiar with English.
fragmede 3 hours ago [-]
The majority of the gains come from the size of the supercomputers used to train them on. That's still growing. The algorithms used, and how the data is annotated is also some secret sauce.
kennethops 7 hours ago [-]
imo it will slowly turn into where people run their own AI
2 hours ago [-]
rho138 8 hours ago [-]
How is one certain bedrock data isn’t being shuttled to external providers?
jofzar 8 hours ago [-]
What other people are saying, but also because Amazon does not want to fuck around in this space. They don't want the legal fight or the reputational damage that would come with it.
trollbridge 8 hours ago [-]
They also don't really stand to benefit from doing so, unlike basically everyone else in this space.

They have access to a ridiculous amount of private customer data and so far have not shown any predilection to misusing that access.

xingped 8 hours ago [-]
To take an easy example that has actually had lawsuits I can link to, you must be unfamiliar with the lawsuits against Amazon for misusing sellers' data in order to undercut them with their own products... https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/13-bln-uk-lawsuit-acc...

There's zero reason to "trust" Amazon about anything. (And yes, I know the retail and AWS sides of the company are different, but it's still the same company. The same rot is always there, just shuffled around.)

bijowo1676 7 hours ago [-]
this is not related to AWS, but merely to amazon's retail business and their sellers know and sign up for the deal when they sell via amazon.

every single retail company does this, they allow suppliers to sell the product using retails's infrastructure, and then retailer turns around and create private label products using sales data (Costco's Kirkland Signature, Walmart's Great Value, are just some examples)

fragmede 7 hours ago [-]
Yes, but Kirkland's signature comes from the same factory. If I'm the factory owner and Costco vis going to guarantee me sales albeit at a slightly lower margin, so long as I slap a different sticker on it, that's different than from Amazon finding out which of my products sells best and then gets someone else to rip it off so I don't get paid anything.
basch 3 hours ago [-]
That’s not the case at all. Kirkland just ditched Huggies making their diapers. They just introduced a breaded chicken tender nug to compete with one on the shelf.

They absolutely go out and find who can make the product and the quality and price they want. It’s not always an identical product to the brand name on the same shelf. Sometimes it displaces the brand name.

bijowo1676 7 hours ago [-]
First of all, we don't know which factory kirkland's products are coming from. Even if they are coming from the same factory, who guarantees the same ingredients and quality control was used???

everything from amazon is coming from China, I dont understand why does a random person who resells stuff from Chinese factories via Amazon FBA feels entitled for exclusivity arrangement with Amazon?

Was such exclusivity encoded in some form of legally enforceable agreement ?

trollbridge 6 hours ago [-]
The retail side is completely different from AWS.
jimbokun 4 hours ago [-]
They have very little to gain and a hell of a lot to lose.
nh2 8 hours ago [-]
In contrast to Microsoft, OpenAI, and Anthropic, AWS has never done anything close to sneaking in unwanted training opt-outs after the fact.

They are the only ones I trust not to do that so far. And their terms are extremely clear on that, no fuzzy language. Exactly what we want to see. So we use Bedrock.

cortesoft 8 hours ago [-]
Contracts and the force of law?
ai_fry_ur_brain 8 hours ago [-]
Which notoriously are always holding the largest corporations accountable /s
harrall 8 hours ago [-]
Laws and rules don’t hold anyone accountable. Anyone can say anything and then break that trust the next second.

Instead you trust your best friend because you have known them for 15 years and seen them in enough situations. It’s long term observation and predictability they ultimately gives trust.

AWS has been around 20 years and has never once shown a sign that that they would sell customer data. Could they still try? Sure, in the same way they my friend who hates seafood his entire life could suddenly flip 180 and love it. Yeah I guess it’s possible.

1 hours ago [-]
SOLAR_FIELDS 8 hours ago [-]
Actually yes, when it’s other huge corporations holding them accountable. It’s only when politicians who are much more cheaply bought get involved that creates problems. When the other side has a significant war chest to combat you with, suddenly behavior improves
ch4s3 8 hours ago [-]
Any sufficiently large company will be prepared to fight this out in court where Amazon would eventually lose.
7 hours ago [-]
650REDHAIR 8 hours ago [-]
Bezos and Altman pinky-promised and are super trustworthy.
azinman2 7 hours ago [-]
Seems like trusting AWS with your data has been a good bet for a long time. They wouldn’t have the size/scale otherwise.
glzone1 2 hours ago [-]
You really don't understand what AWS offers if you think this is what is getting them workloads (including competitors and highly sensitive govt workloads).
SXX 7 hours ago [-]
Bezos is not in AI gold rush. AWS is shovel rental.

Also unlike Altman they are trustworthy - a lot of Amazon competitors do run on AWS for decades.

wmf 2 hours ago [-]
Andy Jassy is actually trustworthy.
kopirgan 7 hours ago [-]
Having worked with lots of companies, I can say that trust is there. But true test is competitors of Amazon. Does Walmart use them? Ebay? Although not in exact same business.
zmmmmm 7 hours ago [-]
They could be lying with all this:

https://docs.aws.amazon.com/bedrock/latest/userguide/data-pr...

But it seems tremendously unlikely with how explicit they are being with it. It is clearly one of the top selling features for the service.

avianlyric 8 hours ago [-]
Contractual obligation, external third party audits, and above all, AWS’s reputation.

AWS isn’t going to risk their reputation, and thus huge chunks of their business, just so a few AI labs can get some extra training data. That’s an insane risk with zero upside for AWS. AWS knows full well they will make insane quantities of cash without breaking legal contracts with companies who pay them billions each year for infra.

33MHz-i486 7 hours ago [-]
they’re crap on a lot dimensions of how they treat customers but data privacy/security is one thats taken pretty seriously at AWS, perhaps owing to the massive reputational damage that would result if they played loose with it.
2 hours ago [-]
CodeNest 27 minutes ago [-]
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Aurornis 8 hours ago [-]
If you are wondering why anyone would spend more money to use these APIs through AWS instead of going direct: In some companies it’s nearly impossible to get new vendors approved. If the company has an AWS contract then you have to use what AWS offers.
Animats 30 minutes ago [-]
Wait, is AWS just reselling access to some AI company's servers, or is AWS running the models on their own hardware?
powvans 8 hours ago [-]
Even if you can get it approved you are adding surface area to your annual security audits, adding another vendor that needs to be disclosed on security assessments, spreading your data to yet another processor, and adding another invoice and budget discussion. Depending on your customer contracts you may need to notify them of a new vendor. This might trigger a new security review. Oh it’s just another model on Bedrock? Bliss.
8 hours ago [-]
morpheuskafka 7 hours ago [-]
Every CEO, board, and middle manager in the world is AI buzzword-obsessed now. Surely asking to sign a contract with the frontier labs directly would not get held up?
stronglikedan 6 hours ago [-]
Every CEO, board, and middle manager in the world still has to go through infosec in large orgs.
crubier 5 hours ago [-]
The hard part is not the CEO, it's the CISO
qurren 4 hours ago [-]
If you're an engineer in the trenches of the company, good luck convincing the people above to sign that contract. You'll waste thousands of hours just trying.
iandanforth 7 hours ago [-]
This is a great move for OpenAI and one that should worry Anthropic. Bedrock was the only way I could use foundation models for a while given AWS lock-in and security requirements.
onion2k 50 minutes ago [-]
Claude is already available as both a pass-through to Anthropic's servers from AWS and in Bedrock. https://aws.amazon.com/claude-platform/ I imagine they're not thrilled that their first mover advantage has gone now, but they'll have seen it coming a mile off.
phillipcarter 8 hours ago [-]
Absolutely huge news for OpenAI. Unimaginable amount of enterprises picked up Claude just because it was available in AWS, and now there's serious competition.
2001zhaozhao 8 hours ago [-]
Good news for competition.

Claude Code keeps omitting new features from people using it through Amazon Bedrock (e.g. auto mode, ultra plan, Claude for Chrome). Hopefully some more competition can get them to rethink their strategy.

Manouchehri 1 hours ago [-]
It's so odd, because Claude models on Amazon Bedrock do support all those features.

For awhile now, I've had a api.anthropic.com emulator that "secretly" forwards requests to Amazon Bedrock. Works great and now I get all the nice first-party only features right away.

kube-system 57 minutes ago [-]
Is that anything you could share?
chrisballinger 3 hours ago [-]
Auto mode works on Bedrock now!
epicepicurean 12 minutes ago [-]
any explanation of why the context window is only 272K?
rohansood15 6 hours ago [-]
Anthropic better get that IPO out soon. Their incredible revenue run-up was basically a result of botched Gemini releases and OpenAI having their hands-tied behind their Azure backs.

Anthropic models were quite literally the only viable serverless API (i.e. Bedrock) models on AWS. They didn't even bother releasing the recent Qwen 3.5/3.6 series. Combined with the token efficiency/ROI focus, I would really like to see how Antrhopic ends Q3.

shay_ker 4 hours ago [-]
It's fascinating that cloud providers like AWS/GCP/Azure are now immovable "enterprise" technologies, in the way that IBM, Oracle, SAP, etc. were 15 years ago (and still are!).

Fond memories when only startups used S3 and EC2....

It's both an incredible triumph and tremendously sad that cloud providers are now the dinosaurs. So many companies are locked in, just as they were before. It's only going to get worse.

I wish the "cloud" was more fungible.

whatever1 5 hours ago [-]
Frontier labs provide “frozen” builds of their models that hyperscalers just serve without collecting data. This is a prerequisite from most of the companies that store sensitive data and still want to use frontier LLMS.
AgentOrange1234 8 hours ago [-]
This is great news. I wish they were keeping their other models updated. With Gemma 4 and Qwen 3.7 already available on OpenRouter, bedrock is just not keeping up at all.
aifusenno1 2 hours ago [-]
Do they use Trainium/Inferentia?
chasd00 6 hours ago [-]
Sucks for Azure. They were the chosen one but couldn’t keep up with demand. Once OpenAI got out of that exclusivity deal saying Azure wasn’t reliable I knew AWS was where they were headed.
CSMastermind 4 hours ago [-]
One of the most attractive things a company can offer its engineers right now is a large token/compute budget.
MagicMoonlight 2 hours ago [-]
But their contract with Microslop prevents this?!?!? They specifically said like a month ago that they wouldn’t sell API access on AWS, they would only release specific products.
_pdp_ 8 hours ago [-]
As usual the more options the better for everyone. While this is not a direct replacement it is good that it exists.
gordonhart 6 hours ago [-]
Are they? I don't see them in the Model Catalog on Bedrock.
jgbuddy 6 hours ago [-]
great for consumers, great for OpenAI, great for Amazon, not so great for MS / Azure (seems like they don't care anyways)
hooch 6 hours ago [-]
No 5.5 Pro
pslab 1 hours ago [-]
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haruka9527 1 hours ago [-]
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Sasisundar09 3 hours ago [-]
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zmysysz 2 hours ago [-]
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Automator666 8 hours ago [-]
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nicechianti 4 hours ago [-]
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chews 9 hours ago [-]
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hmartin 9 hours ago [-]
Wish I could fail hard enough to have a (nearly) $1T startup with some of both the smartest models and smartest people.
cleaning 6 hours ago [-]
How is this your reaction to the story?
dzbarsky 8 hours ago [-]
Care to elaborate how OpenAI is failing in your opinion?
chews 2 hours ago [-]
Sora, TBPN, the Jony Ive boondoggle are a few easy ones.
Handy-Man 9 hours ago [-]
More expensive than directly sourcing from OpenAI
easton 8 hours ago [-]
The AWS pricing page says 10% more than OpenAI, which is probably because they’re forcing all inference through the US and data residency is at a 10% premium from the model vendors for whatever reason (because you’ll pay for it).

If they put in a global endpoint like with Claude (or OpenAI directly) then it’ll probably match the direct pricing, if the pattern holds.

(https://aws.amazon.com/bedrock/pricing/, scroll to OpenAI)

cebert 8 hours ago [-]
It’s even more expensive for GovCloud customers. We pay a 30% premium on top of that.
sokoloff 8 hours ago [-]
It also could be to provide room for enterprise discount pricing without it being money-losing for one of the companies.
yojo 8 hours ago [-]
I have worked at places that have negotiated flat percentage discounts on all AWS spend.

This explanation seems plausible to me.

BoredPositron 9 hours ago [-]
It's for people that can easily pump their AWS bill but not a new vendor.
chopete3 5 hours ago [-]
This is the best thing to happen to AwS. Aws won't push their junk Bedrock equivalents at least.

Enterprises can focus on paying for AWS OpenAI models and get going.

notatoad 4 hours ago [-]
Their “junk bedrock equivalents” like opus?
retinaros 1 hours ago [-]
I guess he meant nova models? Which are definitely not even on the same table than thsoe models so its irrelevant
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