I think the industry has already agreed to give this product category to Apple. Everyone needs a phone, but only specific types of users need a tablet. Apple's tablet is Good Enough for everyone, and they last forever. The o.g. iPad Air we bought in Nov 2020 is still chugging along and we use it... basically only to watch movies on airplane rides etc. And I am primarily a linux/android user, but this is the one Apple device I "use".
If/when it finally dies (we're on year 6) we'll just buy another one, I guess. The biggest risk for our single household tablet is Apple drops support for it. We have no plans to upgrade it ever, so long as netflix and youtube keep working on it.
Fergusonb 1 days ago [-]
Apple's tablets are great, but I think we're just pretty close to the limit for these entertainment devices.
I have a now 7(!) year old Tab S5e that I use to consume media, and it's 5.5mm thick, with 10 hours of battery, a 1600x2560 super AMOLED, and quad firing speakers.
Nothing on the market makes me feel I need an upgrade over what was a $400 mid range tablet, because I have an incredible media experience on all my streaming apps.
selivanovp 14 hours ago [-]
I still use my iPad mini 2 I bought in 2014 to read books. The only problem with it is that reading books is one of the very few things I can do with it these days as Safari is no longer capable of rendering most websites, most apps are not supported, and generally iOS 12 ate most of the memory device has. So yeah, it's my bookreader still, but nothing more.
static_motion 23 hours ago [-]
I don't know whether to consider the fact that you find a device lasting 6 years an impressive feat as testament to how crappy devices, especially mobile ones, have been for the past decade, or how used everyone is to abandon perfectly good devices just because "it's X years old".
pmontra 24 hours ago [-]
> only specific types of users need a tablet
In my case I use my 8.4" tablet to watch free to air TV with a TVHeadend client for Android (no idea if there is one for iOS.) I run a couple of YouTube alternative apps that Google would love to kill. Firefox. Not much else. It's handy as a portable TV set.
ompogUe 23 hours ago [-]
The only Apple product I still have is a 2010 ipad 1. Only use it as a clock, violin tuner, and workout timer, but am amazed it's still going like an old volkswagen.
Original gangsta, which has come to mean “original” with a tint of “I respect it”
They’re either using loosely, as in “my first iPad Air purchased”, or tightly, as in "the original iPad Air release", which was in 2013 but could be purchased used, presumably.
CoastalCoder 1 days ago [-]
It's kid slang for "original", apparently.
ssl-3 1 days ago [-]
It's been around long enough to have gained cromulence, I think.
I started using "OG" ~16 years ago to disambiguate the Motorola Droid that I had (which was the first Android phone available from Verizon) from the Droid 2, 3, and 4 that came later.
"OG Motorola Droid" has specificity, while "Motorola Droid 1" is something that never existed.
Anyway, my usage is old enough to drive a car. :)
kgwgk 1 days ago [-]
That was my first reading but "original generation" and 2020 don't go well together.
Jtsummers 1 days ago [-]
Yeah but 10 years late to be described as the original. That said, my parents got rid of their actual OG iPad only 2-3 years ago (did not hold a charge for a long time, finally decided it was time to get one that did).
Jtarii 1 days ago [-]
50 year old kids
Natfan 1 days ago [-]
first gained general use in ~1991, so 35 years ago
are these "kids" also in the young republicans group chat?
1 days ago [-]
surgical_fire 1 days ago [-]
I had an iPad that Appled forced into obsolecence. I had to throw a perfectly ok piece of hardware on the trash because it was madr unusable by the manufacturer. It's the main reason I despise Apple, including its hardware.
I replaced it with a Samsung A7. It's even better than the iPad as I could sideload a manga reader that syncs with Komga, amazing stuff to read manga.
And I can install LineageOS if need be.
Objectively a better choice than iPad for me.
boppo1 1 days ago [-]
How did apple make it unusable? What model?
signal11 1 days ago [-]
Yes, I was wondering about this. Old iPads running iPad OS 15 received updates last month. So even an iPad Air 2 from 2014 could receive updates in 2026.
The big issue with old iPads though is that apps drop support for older iPad OS versions. Usually their older versions do keep working, though.
surgical_fire 24 hours ago [-]
I don't remember the model. It waa purchased in 2012. Thrown into the trash circa 2019.
7 years lifespan. My Samsung A7 is nearly there.
jonchang 1 days ago [-]
Why wouldn't you just recycle it instead of throwing it in the trash? Seems wasteful.
surgical_fire 24 hours ago [-]
I threw it into a recycle bin for electronic devices.
Also called trash.
tracerbulletx 1 days ago [-]
wtf are you talking about apple supports their devices significantly longer than android..
surgical_fire 19 hours ago [-]
This is meaningless when LineageOS exists.
My Samsung tablet will have a much longer lifespan thanks to that.
williadc 1 days ago [-]
Apple does make the product described in this article, aside from the fantasy price. It's called the iPad.
wvenable 1 days ago [-]
Yeah I soon as I saw the price, this article fell apart completely.
The Neo has a great screen and an older iPhone processor. You can take the keyboard off a Neo add a touch screen but you still have to make a device that fits the battery and has all the same technology. You're back to at least a $600 tablet.
hbn 1 days ago [-]
The starting price of the iPad is $349
dawnerd 1 days ago [-]
I’m confused as well. Did the author not consider the existing product line? iPads are not that expensive for the base model especially during the holidays.
conception 1 days ago [-]
I think the idea not explicitly said is it’d be MacOS not iOS.
sroussey 1 days ago [-]
They should rename it the iPad Neo so we don't refer to as "the just iPad" or plain ipad.
weikju 20 hours ago [-]
And maybe the second generation could be the New iPad Neo ...
thankfully they quickly gave up on "new" after the 2nd iPad....
rchaud 20 hours ago [-]
I think the the author is greatly overstating how big the tablet market is for the product strategy he's hoping for. "Tablet-optimized apps" are a historical artifact of the 2010-2015 period when tablets were a new and exciting category of internet-connected gadget with a plethora of use cases in entertainment and productivity, held back only by 'blown up' versions of mobile apps. Within a few years however, most apps people use (Netflix, Office, Google Docs) were redesigned to scale to the size of the screen, in the same way websites do.
A decade on, the market has spoken. Tablets are overwhelmingly used for Netflix, YouTube and casual mobile games, use cases where specs don't matter and every tablet is more or less "good enough". Maybe a million or so users have an iPad for digital art or as a laptop replacement. Even the cheapest model iPad has pen, mouse and keyboard support. So what would an iPad Neo add?
throw03172019 1 days ago [-]
You can already buy a $349 tablet. Is $200 really the bottom price where growth skyrockets? I’m doubtful.
rumblefrog 1 days ago [-]
You can also buy very cheap laptop prior, but the hardware wasn't that good... Until MacBook Neo came along.
getpokedagain 1 days ago [-]
I think this is pointing out that the base iPad which has nice hardware is already 350 and 200 is not gonna encourage that many new buyers.
dkuntz2 4 hours ago [-]
This guy didn't even look at what Apple sells before writing this. The normal ipad comes in fun colors, and while it doesn't cost $200 (that seems like an unattainable price point), it starts at $350.
naet 16 hours ago [-]
What do you really want to use a tablet for?
The main use I see from people is watching netflix or youtube. There are lots of ipads that are basically just expensive youtube machines. So in that sense a cheap ipad might be seen by some as an upgraded larger screen vs watching TV on their phone screen... but there are already a lot of existing cheap tablets that can do that. Someone gifted my son an Amazon one that I think was around $50 and works fine for that purpose.
You can read ebooks, but e-ink is a lot more pleasant to read I think.
You could get a stylus and draw... but I think that's a more niche use that not as many people are into, and I think professional artists are more likely to buy an art focused product over the generalized tablet / ipad.
For serious work, you're probably better off with a small laptop and keyboard. I know you can get a keyboard for a tablet, but at that point why not just have a laptop?
I'm not sure I see the vision.
Someone 1 days ago [-]
For that to happen, I think there has to be room at the bottom for a product that will not cut much into the sales of higher priced iPads.
For laptops, it seems they had/found that room, but I doubt that room is there for iPads. The low-priced product will have to suffice for browsing, reading, and watching YouTube, and I think that covers the use cases for a large fraction of customers.
Of course, they could go for lower prices, hoping for that to increase iCloud subscription revenues, but long-term, there is a risk of (EU) regulations requiring better competition for that.
m463 1 days ago [-]
At costco they already sell an ipad for $299
That is just £219 and the article wants £200
ben8bit 1 days ago [-]
For all of the Apple hate recently (with glass + MacOS bugs) - it's still great to be able to invest in high quality hardware. I made the switch to Mac, oh about 12 yrs ago, and sometimes forget how spoilt we are with really tight hardware + software integration.
amelius 1 days ago [-]
The hardware is great, but it has been crippled by the software. That still makes it a bad product, imho.
leptons 1 days ago [-]
Apple hardware isn't exceptional, it's maybe slightly above average, sometimes, and still costs more than it should - even the neo with its paltry 8GB of RAM. Apple has had plenty of hardware problems and design foibles. So many.
Their software is equally average in most respects, and has a far smaller market share worldwide across all form factors they support.
iOS is the reason I'll never own another iPad.
I mean, it's fine that you like it, but "spoilt" seems like an exaggeration.
ben8bit 1 days ago [-]
> Apple hardware isn't exceptional, it's maybe slightly above average
Is this a serious statement? If Apple's hardware is maybe slightly above average - what's above it? It's an easy company to hate on - but you don't have any other platform integrated as well as Apple's right now IMO. Unless you maybe count Huawei.
Edit: I think I may be referring more to the holistic picture. But still curious what hardware you think is better.
Marsymars 24 hours ago [-]
> Is this a serious statement? If Apple's hardware is maybe slightly above average - what's above it?
The only hardware I can think of that's consistently higher-quality than Apple is niche stuff at a much higher price point.
e.g. the Seneca keyboard, Sennheiser Orpheus headphones, etc.
leptons 12 hours ago [-]
The "holistic" picture is still crap, unless you like being trapped in a walled garden. I don't.
Apple hardware and software has always been a small worldwide market share, it's just not as popular or as good as the fanboys think it is. For many people it's simply a status symbol and not a real tool for doing anything more than getting to have a blue bubble in text messages so the other fanboys won't laugh at you.
Oh, Apple Silicon you say? Every single test of it is done before thermal throttling kicks in, cutting performance to a fraction of what the peak is. So yeah, you get great performance for about 5 minutes, and then it goes to shit.
We've had to sue Apple in a class action over their faulty hardware, and we won. We just retired our last MBP, and good riddance. It was just so flaky and wouldn't play nice other systems on the network - and I used to be a Mac Sysadmin, so I'm not an idiot with this stuff.
We own Apple stock and would never buy another Apple product again. Fortunately fools and their money are soon parted, so we'll keep making money off them.
enraged_camel 1 days ago [-]
Yeah, no way that is a serious statement. My Macbook Air from 2011 still works perfectly, and the original iPhone that I found stashed inside one of my dad's cabinets charged, turned on without issues and was fully usable as well. That's a device that's almost two decades old. If that's not hardware quality, I don't know what is.
leptons 13 hours ago [-]
Apple had to replace the motherboard in our MBP 7 times before they told us the next repair would cost us $1200. So we sued them in a class action, and we won.
We own Apple stock, and I've worked as a Mac SysAdmin and we'll never buy another Apple product.
Antenna-gate ("you're holding it wrong"), the "magic mouse" with the charging port on the bottom, the shitty keyboard problems, screen problems, etc, etc... Apple misses the mark a lot on its hardware.
Only someone firmly in the grasp of the reality distortion field will claim that Apple hardware is superior.
surgical_fire 1 days ago [-]
I am forced to use a MacBook for work and I think it is shit. I partucularly abhor its reflective screen and the toy keyboard. I hate that it has only 4 usbc ports that force me to have a dongle.
I can't fathom why people like that crap apart from looking slick.
Mac OS is shit, and I would unironically prefer to be forced to use Windows at work.
Style over substance. Pure crap to me.
leptons 13 hours ago [-]
Same here. When I was presented with a MBP at work, I promptly installed Windows on it. I'm not saying Windows is something amazing, but it's better than the toy OS that is MacOS, and Linux simply wasn't an option at work (Devops/Security does not support Linux). I also then plug in my own keyboard and mouse, and external monitor so I don't have to use the subpar keyboard or look at that crap glossy screen.
Now that they ditched Intel, I have even less use for them. Fortunately my current job sends me whatever hardware I want (but I still can't use Linux at work).
comrade1234 1 days ago [-]
I never understood googles strategy in mobile. At the beginning I assumed that they would make a reference platform showing what's possible - a high-end pixel with all of the latest hardware and software features to promote their OS and software. Driving advancement in hardware by others using android. But instead it seems like they're competing at all levels with their hardware and are trying to win at consumer-level hardware against china instead of with their software and search and now ai - areas with high margins and where they make money.
Since their hardware group is t working at promoting their software group they should probably just spin off and do their own thing.
hocuspocus 1 days ago [-]
Google just sucks at this.
The Nexus and early Pixel eras have been a series of weirdly positioned and priced models year after year. Google didn't even bother trying to sell them in more than a handful countries.
Then Google switched to a pretty bad Exynos based SoC and consistently shipped underwhelming hardware at price points aligned with Apple... requiring absolutely insane discounts or promotion campaigns, even at launch. Can you imagine Apple giving you AirPods Pro or a Watch if you buy the next iPhone 18 on day 1?
We've seen things like the Pixel tablet that should have been sold at half its MSRP to stand even a small chance against the iPad.
And I won't even talk of the many hardware issues... my dad's Pixel 7a was fully reimbursed for 25% more money than he actually spent buying it.
Marsymars 1 days ago [-]
> Can you imagine Apple giving you AirPods Pro or a Watch if you buy the next iPhone 18 on day 1?
Apple does exactly this, they just launder it out to their carrier partners. My wife's carrier was recently offering a free Apple Watch if you pre-ordered a new iPhone before launch.
Similarly, Apple was already selling a laptop (the M1 MacBook Air) at MacBook Neo prices, but only via Walmart (and they were continuing production of the M1 MBA specifically for this deal).
hocuspocus 23 hours ago [-]
Carrier deals aren't comparable as they're subsidized by inflated phone plans.
If you buy an iPhone on day 1 from the Apple store you're certainly not getting any gift or discount. With Google you can pre-order and get a $200-300 gift, wait for deals (Black Friday, Christmas, ...) or if you aren't in a rush, wait six months for resellers and carriers to invariably start dumping their stock at half the MSRP. Meanwhile the base iPhone price has decreased by 10-15% maybe.
And I don't see how older MacBook Airs are relevant here. Apple has always sold previous generations of their hardware for years, directly or indirectly, either by actively maintaining production or simply letting resellers deal with old stocks. Google keeping the previous year generation on their product line-up is a very recent development. Not very long ago they would abruptly stop selling the Pixel N before the N+1 were even announced.
Marsymars 22 hours ago [-]
> Carrier deals aren't comparable as they're subsidized by inflated phone plans.
I don't have any insight into what deals the carriers have on the backend, but in my region, the price delta between like-for-like BYOD plans and plans with subsidized iPhones are effectively nil.
Either the carriers are getting discounts from Apple, or everyone with BYOD plans are subsidizing phones for people who get them through carriers.
e.g. I'm currently seeing a carrier plan where the total plan + device cost over 24 months is ~$1,600 and you come out of it free and clear with a 512gb iPhone Air that's $1,749 retail. I don't see how that's possible for the carrier to offer if they're not getting discounts from Apple.
My point is that Apple doesn't want to look like they're giving discounts on their store, so they engineer any discounts to go through third parties.
hocuspocus 21 hours ago [-]
I work at a carrier in Switzerland, if I take the phone we push at the top of our inventory, the iPhone 17 Pro 256 GB:
Phone: 1099 (Apple's MSRP).
24-month phone plan, 50/month the first year, then 81/month: 1572. Discount: -300
Now BYOD:
Phone: 1067 at the biggest and most reputable online retailer.
Near identical phone plan sold through our discount/virtual brand: 30/month i.e. 720 over 24 months (but you can leave anytime).
So even assuming you buy it on day 1 with zero discount from Apple's MSRP, that 300 gift costs you 852 CHF really.
Now if I look at our most agressive competitor, you get the phone for free if you spend at least 1752 on a 24-month phone plan.
They have a better phone plan at 15/month i.e. 360 over 2 years. BYOD is still way cheaper.
Marsymars 15 hours ago [-]
Okay, so maybe your carriers aren't getting good discounts. The existence of plans without good discounts doesn't really show anything. Of course some carriers will have some plans without good discounts.
Like I said, for one of my local carriers, I'm seeing a plan that costs $1,600 that includes both two years of service and a $1,749 MSRP phone.
There's no possible way for a BYOD plan to be cheaper after accounting for the phone MSRP, they'd have to pay you $150 for the SIM card and two years of service.
jayd16 1 days ago [-]
They need to be competitive to some degree for the hardware to actually work as a valid reference and explore those spaces. They also need the business to be successful enough to be a proper threat to would be rebellions from the hardware partners. In general, it is about the software.
amazingamazing 1 days ago [-]
7in iPad with old Apple Watch processors.
bombcar 1 days ago [-]
This made much more sense when I read it as asking for an iPad Nano
Marsymars 1 days ago [-]
It's an iPhone Pro Max without the cellular radio!
neko_ranger 1 days ago [-]
Give me the iphone neo
whalesalad 1 days ago [-]
umm the macbook neo is an ipad lol. with a keyboard attached.
Jtarii 1 days ago [-]
Not what words mean
Rendered at 20:35:12 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
If/when it finally dies (we're on year 6) we'll just buy another one, I guess. The biggest risk for our single household tablet is Apple drops support for it. We have no plans to upgrade it ever, so long as netflix and youtube keep working on it.
I have a now 7(!) year old Tab S5e that I use to consume media, and it's 5.5mm thick, with 10 hours of battery, a 1600x2560 super AMOLED, and quad firing speakers.
Nothing on the market makes me feel I need an upgrade over what was a $400 mid range tablet, because I have an incredible media experience on all my streaming apps.
In my case I use my 8.4" tablet to watch free to air TV with a TVHeadend client for Android (no idea if there is one for iOS.) I run a couple of YouTube alternative apps that Google would love to kill. Firefox. Not much else. It's handy as a portable TV set.
o.g. ?
They’re either using loosely, as in “my first iPad Air purchased”, or tightly, as in "the original iPad Air release", which was in 2013 but could be purchased used, presumably.
I started using "OG" ~16 years ago to disambiguate the Motorola Droid that I had (which was the first Android phone available from Verizon) from the Droid 2, 3, and 4 that came later.
"OG Motorola Droid" has specificity, while "Motorola Droid 1" is something that never existed.
Anyway, my usage is old enough to drive a car. :)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/OG
are these "kids" also in the young republicans group chat?
I replaced it with a Samsung A7. It's even better than the iPad as I could sideload a manga reader that syncs with Komga, amazing stuff to read manga.
And I can install LineageOS if need be.
Objectively a better choice than iPad for me.
The big issue with old iPads though is that apps drop support for older iPad OS versions. Usually their older versions do keep working, though.
7 years lifespan. My Samsung A7 is nearly there.
Also called trash.
My Samsung tablet will have a much longer lifespan thanks to that.
The Neo has a great screen and an older iPhone processor. You can take the keyboard off a Neo add a touch screen but you still have to make a device that fits the battery and has all the same technology. You're back to at least a $600 tablet.
thankfully they quickly gave up on "new" after the 2nd iPad....
A decade on, the market has spoken. Tablets are overwhelmingly used for Netflix, YouTube and casual mobile games, use cases where specs don't matter and every tablet is more or less "good enough". Maybe a million or so users have an iPad for digital art or as a laptop replacement. Even the cheapest model iPad has pen, mouse and keyboard support. So what would an iPad Neo add?
The main use I see from people is watching netflix or youtube. There are lots of ipads that are basically just expensive youtube machines. So in that sense a cheap ipad might be seen by some as an upgraded larger screen vs watching TV on their phone screen... but there are already a lot of existing cheap tablets that can do that. Someone gifted my son an Amazon one that I think was around $50 and works fine for that purpose.
You can read ebooks, but e-ink is a lot more pleasant to read I think.
You could get a stylus and draw... but I think that's a more niche use that not as many people are into, and I think professional artists are more likely to buy an art focused product over the generalized tablet / ipad.
For serious work, you're probably better off with a small laptop and keyboard. I know you can get a keyboard for a tablet, but at that point why not just have a laptop?
I'm not sure I see the vision.
For laptops, it seems they had/found that room, but I doubt that room is there for iPads. The low-priced product will have to suffice for browsing, reading, and watching YouTube, and I think that covers the use cases for a large fraction of customers.
Of course, they could go for lower prices, hoping for that to increase iCloud subscription revenues, but long-term, there is a risk of (EU) regulations requiring better competition for that.
That is just £219 and the article wants £200
Their software is equally average in most respects, and has a far smaller market share worldwide across all form factors they support.
iOS is the reason I'll never own another iPad.
I mean, it's fine that you like it, but "spoilt" seems like an exaggeration.
Is this a serious statement? If Apple's hardware is maybe slightly above average - what's above it? It's an easy company to hate on - but you don't have any other platform integrated as well as Apple's right now IMO. Unless you maybe count Huawei.
Edit: I think I may be referring more to the holistic picture. But still curious what hardware you think is better.
The only hardware I can think of that's consistently higher-quality than Apple is niche stuff at a much higher price point.
e.g. the Seneca keyboard, Sennheiser Orpheus headphones, etc.
Apple hardware and software has always been a small worldwide market share, it's just not as popular or as good as the fanboys think it is. For many people it's simply a status symbol and not a real tool for doing anything more than getting to have a blue bubble in text messages so the other fanboys won't laugh at you.
Oh, Apple Silicon you say? Every single test of it is done before thermal throttling kicks in, cutting performance to a fraction of what the peak is. So yeah, you get great performance for about 5 minutes, and then it goes to shit.
We've had to sue Apple in a class action over their faulty hardware, and we won. We just retired our last MBP, and good riddance. It was just so flaky and wouldn't play nice other systems on the network - and I used to be a Mac Sysadmin, so I'm not an idiot with this stuff.
We own Apple stock and would never buy another Apple product again. Fortunately fools and their money are soon parted, so we'll keep making money off them.
We own Apple stock, and I've worked as a Mac SysAdmin and we'll never buy another Apple product.
Antenna-gate ("you're holding it wrong"), the "magic mouse" with the charging port on the bottom, the shitty keyboard problems, screen problems, etc, etc... Apple misses the mark a lot on its hardware.
Only someone firmly in the grasp of the reality distortion field will claim that Apple hardware is superior.
I can't fathom why people like that crap apart from looking slick.
Mac OS is shit, and I would unironically prefer to be forced to use Windows at work.
Style over substance. Pure crap to me.
Now that they ditched Intel, I have even less use for them. Fortunately my current job sends me whatever hardware I want (but I still can't use Linux at work).
Since their hardware group is t working at promoting their software group they should probably just spin off and do their own thing.
The Nexus and early Pixel eras have been a series of weirdly positioned and priced models year after year. Google didn't even bother trying to sell them in more than a handful countries.
Then Google switched to a pretty bad Exynos based SoC and consistently shipped underwhelming hardware at price points aligned with Apple... requiring absolutely insane discounts or promotion campaigns, even at launch. Can you imagine Apple giving you AirPods Pro or a Watch if you buy the next iPhone 18 on day 1?
We've seen things like the Pixel tablet that should have been sold at half its MSRP to stand even a small chance against the iPad.
And I won't even talk of the many hardware issues... my dad's Pixel 7a was fully reimbursed for 25% more money than he actually spent buying it.
Apple does exactly this, they just launder it out to their carrier partners. My wife's carrier was recently offering a free Apple Watch if you pre-ordered a new iPhone before launch.
Similarly, Apple was already selling a laptop (the M1 MacBook Air) at MacBook Neo prices, but only via Walmart (and they were continuing production of the M1 MBA specifically for this deal).
If you buy an iPhone on day 1 from the Apple store you're certainly not getting any gift or discount. With Google you can pre-order and get a $200-300 gift, wait for deals (Black Friday, Christmas, ...) or if you aren't in a rush, wait six months for resellers and carriers to invariably start dumping their stock at half the MSRP. Meanwhile the base iPhone price has decreased by 10-15% maybe.
And I don't see how older MacBook Airs are relevant here. Apple has always sold previous generations of their hardware for years, directly or indirectly, either by actively maintaining production or simply letting resellers deal with old stocks. Google keeping the previous year generation on their product line-up is a very recent development. Not very long ago they would abruptly stop selling the Pixel N before the N+1 were even announced.
I don't have any insight into what deals the carriers have on the backend, but in my region, the price delta between like-for-like BYOD plans and plans with subsidized iPhones are effectively nil.
Either the carriers are getting discounts from Apple, or everyone with BYOD plans are subsidizing phones for people who get them through carriers.
e.g. I'm currently seeing a carrier plan where the total plan + device cost over 24 months is ~$1,600 and you come out of it free and clear with a 512gb iPhone Air that's $1,749 retail. I don't see how that's possible for the carrier to offer if they're not getting discounts from Apple.
My point is that Apple doesn't want to look like they're giving discounts on their store, so they engineer any discounts to go through third parties.
Phone: 1099 (Apple's MSRP). 24-month phone plan, 50/month the first year, then 81/month: 1572. Discount: -300
Now BYOD:
Phone: 1067 at the biggest and most reputable online retailer. Near identical phone plan sold through our discount/virtual brand: 30/month i.e. 720 over 24 months (but you can leave anytime).
So even assuming you buy it on day 1 with zero discount from Apple's MSRP, that 300 gift costs you 852 CHF really.
Now if I look at our most agressive competitor, you get the phone for free if you spend at least 1752 on a 24-month phone plan.
They have a better phone plan at 15/month i.e. 360 over 2 years. BYOD is still way cheaper.
Like I said, for one of my local carriers, I'm seeing a plan that costs $1,600 that includes both two years of service and a $1,749 MSRP phone.
There's no possible way for a BYOD plan to be cheaper after accounting for the phone MSRP, they'd have to pay you $150 for the SIM card and two years of service.