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Missouri town fires half its city council over data center deal (politico.com)
fusslo 12 minutes ago [-]
> Missouri campaign finance records show a political action committee — made up of labor unions that support data centers because of the jobs they create — spent almost $40,000 in the final weeks of the race on newspaper and digital ads and yard signs in support of the four council members booted from office.

Serious question, what jobs do datacenters create?

Are there jobs for local residents?

jdubs1984 3 minutes ago [-]
In a town of 12K people I'd say it's incredibly unlikely. Most of if not all the labor to build it will be flown in, most of the labor to staff it will be moved in.

And once it's built it's not like a Walmart or something where you need enough staff to police the crowds...there are not crowds. There's some rack and stack needs, and some ongoing cabling needs generally,and some other stuff, but they are staffed as lightly as humanly possible.

I suppose w/ all the out of town labor to build it there will be more waitress and hotel cleaning jobs for a while...a town or over...where they can actually house the labor.

Oh, and they are getting an Olive Garden...which will probably employ more local labor.

nixass 9 minutes ago [-]
> Serious question, what jobs do datacenters create? Are there jobs for local residents?

If locals are qualified then yes. The DC itself does not have many permanent staff (tech, facilities, security) but loads of work is contracted. I'd say that great majority of the work done in and around the DC campus is outsourced, and it creates work for plenty of people.

bdangubic 6 minutes ago [-]
to build - yes. after it is built - no. so there is some temporary work but nothing permanent
dilyevsky 3 minutes ago [-]
At least when i was at google, more than a decades ago at this point, hardware ops guys were locally sourced
nixass 1 minutes ago [-]
You're wrong
pwg 7 minutes ago [-]
A small number of jobs for tradesmen (electricians, plumbers, etc.).

A small number of jobs for security guards.

Maybe a tiny number (one to three?) for individuals tasked with actual hardware swapping within the data center itself.

And all of the above assumes the data center owner does not "travel in" the requisite individuals on an "as needed" basis -- in which case the only jobs that may go to the locals is "security guard".

But all of the "sys-admin" management level work can be done remotely.

So the actual number of new jobs that arrive in the locality is likely on the order of 20-30 or fewer.

SteveNuts 1 minutes ago [-]
Yeah and that type of work bid usually goes to huge conglomerates, a local mom and pop electrician shop isn’t going to be building a datacenter.
dgllghr 3 minutes ago [-]
As someone who lives in Northern Virginia, there are definitely ongoing jobs, but in this area they are mostly filled with H1B workers. The real money is in development
uberduper 5 minutes ago [-]
Many jobs during construction. A site like this is a substantial multi-year construction effort.

Long term permanent jobs.. not so much.

bombcar 45 minutes ago [-]
I hesitate to say it, but at least the datacenter companies haven't realized that federal railroad laws mean that the feds can preempt state and local governments with regards to railroads and yards ... though it may be hard to argue that a datacenter is a necessary part of a railroad.
altairprime 22 minutes ago [-]
It’d be a lot easier to argue that a railroad yard is a necessary part of a datacenter, and then eminent domain and pave it :)

But there’s some sensible planning in linking datacenters and railroads, honestly. Truck-shipping 44U fully-loaded cargo racks in standardized quarter-containers would a lot more sense in today’s AI-proliferation context. And I’d be up for seeing datacenters lose their natural lock-in resistance to customer migrations; “a competitor offered us a 5% discount plus freight refunds if we shift at least 5 cars of racks to them” is a lot easier when your datacenter has cargo crane capacity. There’s still a place for bespoke DCs but for the cog-in-the-cloud stuff that we have now, it’s not a bad idea!

(And, if you add a third rail for power-over-Ethernet, then you can start to have datacenter migrations that don’t cause an outage. Amtrak is already implementing the first stages of datacenter-grade connectivity for riders on their trains, though not amperes of the necessary degree yet.)

toast0 36 minutes ago [-]
A railroad has to track a lot of data; what's in each car (declared by customer), what train it's attached to, where is it on maintenance schedules; similar for the rail and signal infrastructure, etc; in today's modern environment, they need multiple datacenters for high availability.

Something something route planning to reduce the number of coupling changes, etc, etc.

Edit: also, a lot of long distance fiber runs on railroad right of way, so datacenters at rail yards may be well placed for connectivity.

freehorse 12 minutes ago [-]
A railroad is the infrastructure for transporting commodities. In the modern digital economy, datacenters along with the whole internet infrastructure are the modern railroads, which need protection and deregulation for the sakes of safety, national security, economy etc etc. Maybe this argument works better if the others don't?
mcmcmc 4 minutes ago [-]
[delayed]
foota 42 minutes ago [-]
Snowpiercer but with data centers? The breeze would help with cooling!
barbazoo 41 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
functionmouse 30 minutes ago [-]
Do what you must, they've already won.
chromacity 23 minutes ago [-]
I'm honestly surprised why local governments are so eager to make datacenter deals in the first place. I'm pro-progress, but a datacenter brings approximately nothing to the local economy. It doesn't employ any noteworthy number of people, it doesn't generate any real tax revenue, and it increases electricity costs for the region. So if the voters don't want it, that feels like their prerogative.

I don't know if it's the elected officials conflating data centers with the region becoming a bustling tech hub, rather than just a way for a Bay Area company to capitalize on cheap electricity... or if it's kickbacks.

altairprime 14 minutes ago [-]
Technically, it creates construction revenue and jobs. If you’re a municipality with FOMO heading into a job-collapse recession and someone offers you jobs on a silver platter, you might get fired from the city council for refusing it. So it’s particularly interesting to see that citizens would rather refuse datacenters than gain from them. (I certainly agree.)
BugsJustFindMe 17 minutes ago [-]
> and it increases electricity costs for the region

This doesn't need to be true, because increasing costs for others is not an inherent property of adding new electricity consumers. It would be both possible and reasonable to mandate subsidy by the datacenter as part of any deal so that costs don't go up for anyone else.

tombert 10 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, that's what I've been thinking. If we charged twice as much money per kilowatt-hour for datacenter electricity compared to residential, it feels like the net revenue for electricity could be roughly the same to the power company, but then it wouldn't be nearly as annoying for the residents of the town having their prices spike way up.

Or, you know, the AI companies could actually supply their own power like I keep hearing tech bros mention is coming soon.

fhdkweig 14 minutes ago [-]
I think that they hear "$6 billion datacenter" and think that the town's economy is getting $6 billion in jobs rather than some foreign computer hardware company is getting $6B for computers that are housed in their town.
trollbridge 18 minutes ago [-]
A few steak dinners go a long way.
phil21 13 minutes ago [-]
> increases electricity costs for the region

This is really the only legitimate complaint that has any basis in reality.

But "region" is doing a lot of work here. This is typically a multi-state sized region. There are local congestion charges in some places, but overall it doesn't matter a whole lot to your electric bill if a large consumer goes in 200 miles away or across the road from you.

If it goes in across the road your local community gets the benefit of having about the least obnoxious industrial use of land possible. After construction there is very little truck traffic (e.g. much less wear and tear on local roads than a trucking terminal or manufacturing plant), and effectively is a giant office building in terms of impact on it's surroundings. In fact, until recently most of the datacenters were built in suburban office and light industrial parks and no one was the wiser.

There are legitimate complaints to be made about "datacenters" that also co-locate a natural gas or diesel power plant. But those complaints are towards building a power plant across the street, not a datacenter.

It's effectively as "free" of a tax base as you can get, assuming you don't negotiate stupid local tax abatements - which I suppose is a large caveat. Those should be simply outright illegal for everyone though, I don't see that as a datacenter specific thing. It also does effectively employ a few dozen to few hundred local tradesmen through the lifecycle of such a facility - since at these scales there is constant electric and plumbing work to be done. Usually the highest paid and highly skilled of such type of work. Many (most?) places are even using union labor for these bits.

The power problem exists broadly though. We spent a few generations not building out anything of material size and we are reaping what we have sewn. It was coming for us either way - datacenter AI bubble just brought it forward a some odd number of years. Just look at how hard it is to get a wind farm project off the ground due to NIMBY - both for the wind farm itself, and the 200 mile transmission line you might need to build to the closest major load centers. Effectively impossible.

mcmcmc 57 seconds ago [-]
[delayed]
behringer 17 minutes ago [-]
It's the second thing
ramesh31 22 minutes ago [-]
This is becoming a pretty clear wedge between red and blue. Why do you think Musk opened his diesel turbine driven data center in rural Mississippi? Big Tech is systematically targeting small municipalities across the US with promises of insane money to anyone willing to sell out their residents. Missouri being traditionally purple, it makes a lot of sense the flashpoint would be here.
BitWiseVibe 3 minutes ago [-]
NIMBYism comes in all colors
bigtex 15 minutes ago [-]
Red states are against the deals as well. Many people in Texas are fighting back but sometimes it’s too late because the deal was done in secret.
wvenable 7 minutes ago [-]
It's crazy that these are done in secret. From the article: "The operator of the data center hasn't been identified" -- that's shouldn't be allowed.
10 minutes ago [-]
bdangubic 4 minutes ago [-]
This is 100% not a political issue, red & blue are lining up against DCs. the DC capital of the world is Northern Virginia which is bluer than Bernie
cucumber3732842 29 minutes ago [-]
I wish when they write these storied they'd put the town's per capita income in brackets the way they do with politician's party affiliation or company's ticker. The "Fairfax of St. Louis" voting out half their legislature over a project means something very different than the "Newark of St. Louis" doing the same.
securicat 22 minutes ago [-]
And why is that?
cucumber3732842 19 minutes ago [-]
Because snooty suburbs have said "not here, move your filthy industry somewhere else" since forever.

When the places that aren't swimming in jobs, the local government isn't swimming in property tax revenues and frankly probably can't even enforce the rules they're federally compelled to have without destroying everything says "take that somewhere else" it means something entirely different.

emiliazar 2 hours ago [-]
[dead]
ekkiren 46 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
bachmeier 32 minutes ago [-]
I'd say having your house fall to a third of its value while your electricity bill triples is a perfectly rational argument for opposing a data center. If the data center is that valuable, pay the residents current market value for their property and give them a million dollars to uproot their life. Letting giant corporations impose massive costs on the folks that don't have the money to buy politicians is not an efficient outcome.
oompydoompy74 41 minutes ago [-]
Props to these folks for protecting their community. Maybe they can build the data center in your backyard instead :).
bluGill 35 minutes ago [-]
They are. Well okay, it is about 5km away, but it is in the direction of my backyard. They are quiet neighbors overall, not much traffic compared to most other jobs. The only thing not to like is someone negotiated a tax 10 year break on us.
phil21 31 minutes ago [-]
Sounds good to me. As far as industrial neighbors go it doesn't get any better than a glorified warehouse. The scale of these facilities means keeping a few local contractors in the trades in business indefinitely - electricians, plumbers, etc. Not ideal in terms of number of jobs gained, but those jobs tend to be high quality.

Power costs are a concern, but it doesn't matter if it's across the street from me or 100 miles away on the same PJM interconnect. In the end it likely would strengthen the local grid where I live.

Water usage is just overblown social media rage bait for the most part in most locations at least. So long as it's not a stupid ridiculous design go for it.

The only thing I'd rage against are tax credits. But I'd be strongly against those no matter the project going in. The only public money spent should be on adding traffic lights or improving road access if needed, and I'd want to see that being justified.

This assumes an actual datacenter. Not one with a co-located power plant. These are different things.

Many folks lived near datacenters and had utterly no clue or care until they were told to be mad about it. I'd point them out to visitors or when traveling to family and they'd never have known the difference otherwise. It's effectively living next to an office park.

philipwhiuk 43 minutes ago [-]
Datacentres aren't mills. Mills employed hundreds of people and mill owners invested in property to house the workforce in the local area.

Data centres are mostly ran remotely, employing a handful of people to watch a fence line.

fhdkweig 33 minutes ago [-]
And unless they also build their own power plant, everyone in town has to pay higher electricity prices to cover the new demand. That is the primary complaint I have been hearing.

If anyone wants to add any other complaints to the list, I'd like to hear them. I might be forced to have this argument in my parent's hometown in the coming years.

Mistletoe 32 minutes ago [-]
And sucking down all the electrical power in the region.

> Yet another (text) suggests residents would forget about the data center controversy as soon as they find out the city is getting a new Olive Garden restaurant.

This was so funny.

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