Nothing recent made me feel quite as old and out of the loop more as the slowness with which I realized that this is about x.com (Twitter), not x.org (the windowing system).
kushalpandya 20 minutes ago [-]
That too would very likely be seen as deeply political.
mindslight 16 minutes ago [-]
After reading about Wayland for 10 (?) years and thinking it was some huge deal, I finally took the leap as I was redoing my window manager anyway and it was quite easy (at least on NixOS). Heck virt-viewer (one of my main apps) is still running under Xwayland because the performance seems better.
Gare 41 seconds ago [-]
10 years ago Wayland was in much worse state. It started being good in the last few years, though some features are still lacking.
a_paddy 14 minutes ago [-]
My favourite microblogging platform is way.land
hasley 14 minutes ago [-]
I was thinking of X11 as well, but did not feel old - until I read your text. ;)
noosphr 18 minutes ago [-]
Probably more reasonable.
I'm not sure why xorg exists if their sole purpose is to kill x. As per the many posts by their developers.
raverbashing 12 minutes ago [-]
It would be ironic if Xorg launched a twitter competitor using a custom update protocol (an X extension) over the network and TCL
blurbleblurble 23 minutes ago [-]
You're aging well
markkitti 17 minutes ago [-]
I had the exact same experience.
davidw 25 minutes ago [-]
My grandparents were pretty WASPy, conservative people who lived in northern Idaho. And they hated the white supremacist/neonazi groups up there with a burning passion. They were of an age to remember people going off to fight in Germany and Asia against that kind of ideology.
They would have been absolutely appalled and ashamed to see a business leader throwing those salutes and backing it up with talk of a "white homeland" and similar comments.
I find it deeply dismaying that people consider that "just politics" or that opposing it is "ideological". We can argue all day about the proper rate of corporate taxation or debate the best way to implement environmental regulations, and I will not consider you a bad person if you disagree with me. But the kind of crap coming out of that guy? That's beyond politics.
13 minutes ago [-]
quantified 4 minutes ago [-]
Well, all of these are politics and ideology. It's OK to have an ideological bent of some sort or other. You can indeed be highly intolerant of those who are intolerant in certain ways. You can hate certain kinds of hate. And you can call out greedy callous bastards wherever you see them. It's basically being discerning.
ryandrake 17 minutes ago [-]
It's shocking how quickly the "ideology" got normalized. Yes, the Klan has always had pockets of the country where they could march without getting their asses kicked, and there have always been those handful of weird uncles who kept their Nazi beliefs to themselves, but back in the 90s if you flew a swastika flag or Heil Hitlered in public, you were asking for an immediate beat-down and would probably be ostracized from society. But suddenly, within the span of 10 years, it's all out in the open, from the inbred yokels all the way up to the richest man on the planet. Something seems to have happened, say 10 or so years ago, that somehow unmasked everyone all at once. Trying to figure out what it might have been...
cozyman 10 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
holmesworcester 17 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
hombre_fatal 8 minutes ago [-]
I think there are better things to focus on about Elon Musk, like his role in getting Trump elected, the misinfo tweets he reposts with "Exactly" and "Concerning" (where the top community note trivially debunks the tweet -- he doesn't care whether it's real), making a stink about the Epstein files until he was cool with Trump again, promoting right-wing slop like Gunther Eagleman, changing Twitter in general like how you can freely say the n-word now, how he went about DOGE, what he promotes vs what he's silent on.
But I've yet to see someone show video of a prominent democrat doing the same salute as Musk. Which is probably why it's left as an exercise for the reader to find.
That said, we don't need to speculate about his salute when you can look directly at the slop he posts on Twitter.
ryandrake 16 minutes ago [-]
Anyone who doesn't think what Musk did was a Nazi salute, I encourage you to watch the video over and over, enough times so that you can memorize and replicate it, then go into work and do it in front of your manager, and see what happens.
fooey 9 minutes ago [-]
he literally paraphrased the 14 words after doing it
"It is thanks to you that the future of civilization is assured."
it's an absolute joke anyone disputes what he did
holmesworcester 6 minutes ago [-]
This video is helpful grounding for the discussion.
"Oh, I must have missed seeing you at the corporate retreat! Put yourself on my calendar so we can talk about your promotion."
micromacrofoot 13 minutes ago [-]
I guess we're at "it's your fault for having eyes" part of the defense of the action.
It seemed pretty blatant to me if you watch the whole video, the chest pound and the clear arm/hand extension really makes it difficult to see as anything else.
It was distinctly different from the stills of other politicians waving that often get used as comparison by trolls trying to defend it... when you compare videos the difference is not even questionable.
Like many on the right, Elon is super wrong on immigration, trans rights, and even about how to achieve his own stated goals, as projected onto politics.
But it's important to be objective, and charitable.
highmastdon 19 minutes ago [-]
What do you mean _exactly_? Covering your statement is a shroud of vagueness doesn’t help form an opinion, only infuse more polarisation
SimianSci 10 minutes ago [-]
Your comment on vagueness misses its mark.
> business leader throwing those salutes and backing it up with talk of a "white homeland"
It is not every commenter's duty to cite their sources when you have the ability to easily infer the context and search the internet. These are very well documented actions that they refer to.
Your attempts to drive sentiment through casting doubt are noticed.
Brendinooo 54 minutes ago [-]
That statement pretty clearly shows that they have certain ideological concerns that they value more highly than the kind of stuff we tend to think the EFF primarily cares about (digital privacy, open source, patent trolling, etc).
Through that lens, I guess it makes sense that they see TikTok, Instagram, and BlueSky as worth their time and presence but not X.
Legend2440 14 minutes ago [-]
The EFF is and has always been a political activist organization.
Of course they care about ideological concerns.
Brendinooo 12 minutes ago [-]
Where in my comment did I claim otherwise?
slg 7 minutes ago [-]
You discussed two distinct groups: "certain ideological concerns" and "the kind of stuff we tend to think the EFF primarily cares about". I think you're getting this type of response because many of us can't see any actual difference between those two groups besides your own politics and assumptions.
Brendinooo 2 minutes ago [-]
You might be right; I don't know what the broad populace thinks of what EFF does.
I'll ask you then: What are the three main areas of advocacy that you think the EFF has been the most visible and/or effective?
nostrademons 8 minutes ago [-]
I had the opposite impression, that this decision was primarily economic in nature. People (or at least the sort of people interested in the EFF) simply aren't on X/Twitter anymore, and so it's not worth posting there.
mghackerlady 23 minutes ago [-]
freedom is intersectional. it's hard to fight for freedom while supporting those that actively limit the freedom of others, especially when the amount of impressions are no longer worth doing it for
tptacek 12 minutes ago [-]
That's explicitly not the logic EFF is using; they come close to outright rejecting it.
jasonlotito 43 seconds ago [-]
> ... when the amount of impressions are no longer worth doing it for
> The Numbers Aren't Working Out
I don't know. That's front and center. Can to share how that's an "outright rejection"?
Brendinooo 9 minutes ago [-]
> freedom is intersectional
What is your working definition of freedom?
nailer 20 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
ceejayoz 16 minutes ago [-]
> You don’t have a freedom to make anyone else agree with or believe in your views…
No one has asserted this.
If your views suck, people have the freedom to say "ok, bye".
This person said freedom requires insectionality, and intersectionality requires me to believe that men are women, that Jewish people having missiles aimed at their houses by terrorists are bad and that Hamas is good, in racist hiring policies, and other evil beliefs.
greenavocado 13 minutes ago [-]
"if your views suck, people have the freedom to say ok bye" is literally just restating what the other person already believes, except you've framed it like you're winning an argument. no one said you can't leave. the point is don't pretend leaving is a moral stance when it's just a preference.
ceejayoz 12 minutes ago [-]
> the point is don't pretend leaving is a moral stance when it's just a preference
So I'm not free to assert moral reasons for my actions?
cycomanic 13 minutes ago [-]
I think that's the point. The owner of X as well as most of the remaining denizens are actively working on taking away the freedom of others to believe in their own views and make them adhere to their beliefs.
greenavocado 11 minutes ago [-]
actively working on taking away the freedom of others to believe in their own views is an unhinged thing to say about a social media platform you can simply not use. no one on x is reaching into your brain and rearranging your beliefs. you're describing a website with a vibe you don't like and acting like it's a reeducation camp.
ceejayoz 7 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
geertj 10 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
MengerSponge 3 minutes ago [-]
Bro. He's still censoring viewpoints. He's also boosting his ideological viewpoints, which diminishes the reach of everything else.
"freedom is intersectional" is a fancy way of saying "I only support freedom for people I agree with." and the impressions line at the end is basically admitting it was never about principles, it was about clout. you didn't leave the platform because of ethics, you left because the algorithm stopped paying you for it.
mghackerlady 11 minutes ago [-]
>"freedom is intersectional" is a fancy way of saying "I only support freedom for people I agree with."
That is the exact opposite of what that means. It means freedom should be supported for all, especially for the oppressed. Those who stand for oppression in one way serve to benefit other forms of oppression
greenavocado 9 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
miyoji 4 minutes ago [-]
What? Freedom of association implicitly means freedom not to associate. It is not at all incompatible with freedom to say, "I don't want to hang out with those guys because they suck."
I believe in freedom of speech for people that I don't want to talk to. There is no contradiction in that.
panarky 15 minutes ago [-]
Where did you read that in their post?
Because what I read is that their X posts are getting only 3% of the engagement compared to pre-Musk Twitter.
The post insinuates that's because the platform intentionally down-ranks posts for ideological purposes.
onetimeusename 5 minutes ago [-]
> Young people, people of color, queer folks, activists, and organizers use Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook every day.
Brendinooo 6 minutes ago [-]
Where you do you see this insinuation being made? I don't see anything like that.
24 minutes ago [-]
UncleMeat 13 minutes ago [-]
They also mention that tweets today get far less engagement than they once did.
tikhonj 19 minutes ago [-]
Ah yes, a non-profit reaching out to a broader audience for its activism is clearly a "certain ideological concern" separate from their core mission.
nailer 18 minutes ago [-]
The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression is
A modern day organisation dedicated solely to freedom of expression including digitally
Agreed. The fact that their Threads account[0] is still active (remember that site? yeah, me neither, I had forgotten it existed until I saw it linked on eff.org's socials page) makes it clear that the opening statement about "the numbers not working out" is deceptive.
You have to scroll down a bit further to find their real reason for preferring those sites:
> people of color, queer folks, activists, and organizers use Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook every day
Threads has more daily active users than X and is growing quickly vs. the latter’s cratering usage rates. Demographics trend younger, too.
matt-attack 19 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
MidnightRider39 14 minutes ago [-]
I don’t even seem them using that phrase in the linked thread?
What’s wrong with it anyway?
satvikpendem 10 minutes ago [-]
I don't see it either, funny how people had a knee jerk reaction without even visiting the thread and validating that the phrase even exists. Maybe it's even further down but without logging in I can't see it.
throwawaypath 3 minutes ago [-]
That quote is in the linked EFF statement, which you clearly didn't read.
pixl97 14 minutes ago [-]
Remind me again what the Q in LGBTQ stands for?
blurbleblurble 19 minutes ago [-]
I just wanna remind people that this website is full of elon's drones and bots who mob flagged any criticism of DOGE for months on end. A lot of the "outrage" expressed in this discussion is likely faux.
MidnightRider39 11 minutes ago [-]
I mean it’s always been an outlet of a popular Silicon Valley VC.
As the US sinks more and more into despotism, those controlling Silicon Valley are just enablers of that despotism.
mellosouls 56 minutes ago [-]
If they justify it in terms of reach and impressions then say they will still be on BlueSky and Mastodon then you know it's purely ideological.
Which is fine but just be honest about it.
madeofpalk 53 minutes ago [-]
They're the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Of course they're ideological. That's the whole point of their existence.
Anyway,
> Twitter was never a utopia. We've criticized the platform for about as long as it’s been around. Still, Twitter did deserve recognition from time to time for vociferously fighting for its users’ rights. That changed. Musk fired the entire human rights team and laid off staffers in countries where the company previously fought off censorship demands from repressive regimes. Many users left. Today we're joining them.
I had respect for the EFF but this post is very disingenuous. Makes it seem like the decision is based on numbers yet they share no impression numbers for the other platforms.
Seems like they've become just another NGO with a hidden agenda.
causal 9 minutes ago [-]
What is the agenda? You're hinting at some conspiracy but I have no idea what it could even be
243341286 29 minutes ago [-]
Yet they had no problem with the censorship of conservative opinions during the Biden era.
MSFT_Edging 22 minutes ago [-]
Those "conservative opinions" were usually violent hate speech. There was no shortage of "conservative opinions" pre-buyout.
I think people were just upset certain figures were held to the TOS.
fooey 14 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, the followup to that "censorship of conservative opinions" complaint is always "which opinions are those"
It's a perfect analogue for asking confederate fans, "state's rights to do what?"
fourseventy 10 minutes ago [-]
People were getting banned from Twitter for saying "Men can't get pregnant", or is that against the TOS?
faefox 21 minutes ago [-]
You can tell conservative opinions are censored and suppressed by the way they're constantly shoved down our throats every hour of every day.
mghackerlady 19 minutes ago [-]
Conservative opinions like "[group of people] are evil and don't deserve to be happy" and "we need a white homeland"
If you aren't kicking nazis out of your bar, it'll become a nazi bar. Twitter stopped kicking out the nazis
deathanatos 2 minutes ago [-]
They … did, though?
You're presumably referencing Missouri v. Biden, to which the EFF did file an amicus[1]. In it, they note,
> Many platforms have potentially problematic “trusted flagger” programs in which certain
groups and individuals enjoy “some degree of priority in the processing of notices
> Of course, governmental participation in content moderation processes raises First Amendment issues not present with non-governmental inputs
With there overall opinion being something like "content moderation is normal, the government flagging content is also normal, and there are instances where the government's flagging of content moderation can be fine & not run afoul of 1A, but there are instances where it can, and we urge the court to think"
Conservative talking points were fucking everywhere, and still are.
0123456789ABCDE 12 minutes ago [-]
care to share some quotes from those "conservative opinions" that were censored?
MallocVoidstar 6 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, I remember when the "Twitter Files" were being released and it turned out that Twitter was illegitimately censoring leaked nudes of Hunter Biden. Whyever would non-consensually posted nudes be taken down other than the suppression of conservatism?
lux-lux-lux 1 minutes ago [-]
Just looking over recent posts, the EFF gets more interaction on BlueSky than it does on X despite 1/3 the followers and being on a much smaller site.
I think that says it all.
pjc50 51 minutes ago [-]
The reach and impressions on Twitter are fake though, and posts containing links are suppressed.
(Of course the EFF are ideological, that's their entire purpose!)
rockskon 2 minutes ago [-]
Sometimes it's not just about quantity. Not all impressions are equal.
And like it or not - Twitter is still the preferred communication platform of quite a few influential people.
asdfman123 23 minutes ago [-]
Their front page says "The leading nonprofit defending digital privacy, free speech, and innovation for 35 years and counting!"
They are an organization that exists to support an ideological viewpoint. Any political stance is ideological!
surgical_fire 13 minutes ago [-]
We are talking about EFF. They are essentially an advocacy group, 100% ideological by definition.
It would be dishonest of them to pretend they were not ideological. Staying on Twitter was likely worse for their mission then leaving it.
watwut 28 minutes ago [-]
The article is honest and open about reasons.
What is dishonest is to write as if there was something wrong with leaving twittwr for "ideological" reasons.
bakugo 24 minutes ago [-]
Citing low engagement numbers as a reason for leaving while continuing to maintain an active Threads account is the opposite of honest.
jesse_dot_id 22 minutes ago [-]
Astounds me that anyone is still using that platform after seeing how Musk treated the engineers when he took over.
ghshephard 10 minutes ago [-]
I was recently at a brown bag at work - regarding enablement of AI in the workplace (it was awesome - all over the roadmap) - and one of the audience asked the speakers (a very diverse group of people) how on earth they keep up with all the developments in AI?
All six of the speakers immediately said Twitter was realistically the only place you can keep up with the conversation. Having an extensively curated list means that anytime anything breaks (and often a few hours before) you are going to hear about it on X/Twitter.
I would love to know if there is anything even close to the reach of X. It has a lot of problems - but if you want to track breaking news, I can't think of anything else close to it.
trollbridge 1 minutes ago [-]
Well, Twitter has a lot of separate spheres. It's pretty easy to curate just tpot (the part that concerns itself with the Bay area, venture capital, and so forth) by following the right people and then engaging with posts that are on-topic.
650REDHAIR 5 minutes ago [-]
He banned me after I replied to his tweet with my display name set as "Elon's Musk".
I think I lasted <1 week after this takeover.
numpad0 5 minutes ago [-]
[delayed]
satvikpendem 14 minutes ago [-]
Lots of good discussion there still if you follow the right people and block certain categories of discussion. If you use lists then you'll see no suggested content beyond who you follow.
I'm more astounded that people think every single part of it is a cesspool when in reality there are gems to be found that aren't in any other X alternative like Bluesky or Mastodon or (lol) Threads.
Lord_Zero 9 minutes ago [-]
This is a poor take. "You can make this mismanaged steaming pile of bot-infested garbage better if you just filter everything!"
nkohari 2 minutes ago [-]
The problem is that there isn't really an alternative. The discussion is still happening there and nowhere else. (Trust me, I've looked.)
satvikpendem 5 minutes ago [-]
How is it a poor take? Yes that's exactly what I said to do. It's the same as Reddit, I don't read whatever garbage is on r/all, I follow specific subreddits. Honestly people should curate no matter what social media they're on and find ways to stop seeing suggested content; my Instagram shows me only people I follow too, via a third party app/mod.
SecretDreams 17 minutes ago [-]
You'd be surprised how easy it is for people to compartmentalize their principles. Many do it day to day every time they purchase something online that was probably made using less than ideal labour practices.
Still, I'd advocate to leave social media in general. And certainly to get off twitter.
Ir0nMan 53 minutes ago [-]
This reads as very performative. You don't have to choose between posting 10 times a day or deleting your account; you could just post less or use it for major updates.
spicymaki 3 minutes ago [-]
Performative expression is critical. You need to actually do the thing you believe and if it is of political significance say it and do it visibly. Otherwise there is no impact.
lxgr 20 minutes ago [-]
But then how would I know where to get more regular updates as somebody following them there? It used to be a bannable offense to even link to your presence on a competing side; not sure if it still is.
26 minutes ago [-]
tonymet 25 minutes ago [-]
well put. if their mission is to help protect vulnerable communities, and the effort to post on X is near zero ( it can be automated or take just a moment manually), they are betraying their mission to help protect as many vulnerable communities as possible.
pmdr 4 minutes ago [-]
> We'll Keep Fighting. Just Not on X
Yeah, somewhere where regular people that aren't terminally online won't ever have the chance to see it. This is a dumb decision. I'd very much like for open, distributed social networks to win, but that's not a reality we'll be living in anytime soon. X, for better or worse, gets you eyes, more so than any other alternative social media.
pino83 7 minutes ago [-]
If we would talk about my local pizza restaurant here: Very nice move.
For EFF: That's ~15 years too late, and way too specific. Their job (without them ever having realized in fact) was to generate some force against these centralized commercial walled gardens, where we have our public discourse, with some opaque algorithms deciding what goes up and what goes down.
nickdothutton 1 hours ago [-]
These are interesting numbers for engagement but don't mean as much without equivalent stats for the other platforms. It's a little like when a news story quotes only a percentage (but not the absolute figure in $) or vice versa.
snayan 58 minutes ago [-]
Agreed.
Assuming they use the same principles everywhere, they're getting more views on Mastodon and Bluesky? That is surprising.
Ajedi32 36 minutes ago [-]
Their logic for why they're on TikTok and Facebook seems sound to me, but doesn't that same logic apply to X? I kept waiting for the explanation but it never came...
mghackerlady 33 minutes ago [-]
there isn't enough people left there to be worth the tradeoff
Ajedi32 31 minutes ago [-]
13 million impressions a year isn't enough to be worth copy-pasting a few posts from Facebook?
ceejayoz 30 minutes ago [-]
Not if enough folks think your posting there is a sign you're an ass.
If you hang out in a bar with KKK memorabilia everywhere - and open the replies of any reasonably popular news story on X before complaining that's not a fair comparison - people make conclusions off your presence, even if you're personally there for the tasty beer.
loeg 27 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
cosmic_cheese 15 minutes ago [-]
Even if I make an effort to train its algorithm away from overtly political posts, I frequently see all manner of far-right garbage in the replies, often including racial slurs among other nastiness. That kind of thing existed in the Twitter days too, but at least back then it was at dramatically lower volumes and repeat offenders usually got banned. Now it runs rampant, largely coming from bot accounts posting from south-east Asia and various parts of Africa.
qzx_pierri 12 minutes ago [-]
No point in even arguing with them, man. Their mind is made up. Logic goes out the window when people believe you're beneath them.
Which is ironic, considering the type of fanbase the EFF had (and still has), that has largely been overshadowed by people who behave this way when given the chance to have an objective discussion.
ceejayoz 25 minutes ago [-]
Those are two directly contradictory statements.
EricDeb 2 minutes ago [-]
X "impressions" are not worth very much
the_real_cher 30 minutes ago [-]
I had that exact same thought. The argument they presented applies to any walled garden, they gave no reason why X would be the exception.
It's clear this is about politics, and I'm not opposed to that, Elon is not awesome, but trying to justify it otherwise seems kind of shady.
samename 35 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
amatecha 44 minutes ago [-]
Is there any site that keeps track of companies/orgs and/or noteworthy people who have left "X"? I've noticed some pretty significant orgs leaving in the recent year or two and have repeatedly wondered if there's some kind of list out there. I mean, it would just be a handy list to show people when I say something like "more and more people are leaving that garbage site" and they want receipts and I'm like... "uh the province of New Brunswick was the latest I saw" >_> I found this list of celebrities in the meantime, at least: https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/celebrity/twitter-celebr...
1234letshaveatw 13 minutes ago [-]
That is just like when those US celebs moved to Europe after Trump was elected!
CrzyLngPwd 12 minutes ago [-]
So they are chasing engagement, and X isn't giving them the attention they think they deserve.
The golden days of the sentinels driving traffic without you paying for it are over, and they won't come back.
Lord_Zero 5 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, pretty sad to try and package it around morals. There were 2 dozen cataclysmic events on X since Elon walked in with the kitchen sink but THIS is the final straw. "Not my views!"
warbaker 4 minutes ago [-]
I wish this announcement weren't infused with intersectionality.
For example, they list a few of reasons that leaving social media isn't viable for everyone, including "Your abortion fund uses TikTok to spread crucial information."
I support reproductive rights! But I don't want EFF to do that, and I don't want EFF to push conservatives out of the movement. I want EFF to appeal to everyone who cares about digital civil liberties, including people who disagree with me on other issues.
ppeetteerr 2 minutes ago [-]
I applaud the move. It's also a little disingenuous to talk about moral standings when the third opening sentence is "The math hasn’t worked out for a while now." If the numbers were working out, would they continue to turn a blind eye on the privacy tracking?
Are they leaving because of low views? This means they are more concerned about views than anything else? I thought any sane company wants as much exposure anywhere no matter the political stance or other views.
mikaeluman 30 minutes ago [-]
I tend to almost only use X now. I really can't use Facebook or Instagram since the introduction of "ad breaks" because I haven't given them ability to give me "personalised ads".
It is, but the other one is a link to their twitter post, whereas this is the longer self-hosted statement. This is a better, more informative source.
daft_pink 9 minutes ago [-]
Just noting it. The other post was submitted earlier. The mod's can figure out how to combine/reconcile. Update: I think you are correct and this one won :)
rockemsockem 40 minutes ago [-]
This seems completely unnecessary and performative. I have a hard time understanding how reducing their reach could possibly be helpful to the goals of the organization. I'm definitely going to keep donating to them, but I'm concerned.
ruszki 18 minutes ago [-]
How do you know that they reduce their reach to their target audience in any considerable way? According to their article their reach on X is about 3% of what was 7 years ago, and god knows how much is bot from those 3%.
proee 7 minutes ago [-]
Leading out with "The numbers aren't working out" is a bit disingenuous. If they were "working out", would you continue to stay? If the answer is "no", then just remove the numbers talking point in your justification altogether.
linuxhansl 22 minutes ago [-]
Good. Now leave TikTok and Facebook as well. People who care will find out what you are up to, and people who don't won't see you on social media anyway.
I left Twitter, Facebook, et al about a decade ago. And I can assure you: You will never miss any important development.
The notion that we need to plugged into Twitter, X, whatever, to stay up to date is simply false.
lxgr 14 minutes ago [-]
Personally I don’t use it for anything I can find pretty much everywhere else as well, but there are still a few people whose posts I consider interesting that only post on X.
vardump 16 minutes ago [-]
I don't use social media at all, unless you count HN as such.
I think the only practical consequence is that EFF loses some fraction of audience.
crims0n 40 minutes ago [-]
I don't understand, does it cost them something to copy/paste their posts to X?
SAI_Peregrinus 33 minutes ago [-]
Brand reputation. Every brand that chooses to use X implicitly supports X, even if they're not verified & paying X money.
loeg 24 minutes ago [-]
Does anyone seriously think EFF posting to X yesterday tarnished their brand? Be real.
AlexAplin 8 minutes ago [-]
The advertisers that evaporated and left behind a lot of no label dropshipping scams seem to think so. Did a lot of them eventually come back because there is some audience to squeeze numbers from? Sure, but I also wouldn't negate that many didn't and aren't coming back because it is Elon's playground now.
nickthegreek 22 minutes ago [-]
Yes, people do in fact judge others for their associations.
If you don't that is fine but I imagine you would also hold the view that not posting on X shouldn't be controversial then either.
horacemorace 15 minutes ago [-]
My neighbor blares Fox in their kitchen every day. I view them with the same flavor of suspicion as someone who posts there.
650REDHAIR 1 minutes ago [-]
Yes.
I applaud the move and only wish they would have done it sooner.
coldpie 2 minutes ago [-]
Yeah, I do. People & brands having a link to an X account is a huge red flag.
jdashg 11 minutes ago [-]
I do, yeah. Hope that helps!
diath 16 minutes ago [-]
Not really, this is the kind of argument you only ever see on Reddit/HN, normal people don't care.
crims0n 30 minutes ago [-]
Going against the network effect out of principal doesn't seem to be a winning strategy when the goal is to raise awareness about issues.
orwin 28 minutes ago [-]
I've coded a 3rd party tool that could post to mastodon/twitter at the same time around 2020 (plenty of idle time during covid). I lost twitter API access, never bothered to try to make it work again (i hate working with interface clickers). to be clear, i don't really post on social media, it was just an experiment because i had faaar too much time and thought at the time that this kind of product could be interesting.
But i would bet social media managers use similar tools, and the fact that no one can access twitter API might add just the little bit of friction you want to avoid.
32 minutes ago [-]
busterarm 39 minutes ago [-]
No, they even would get money for the engagement they get. This is purely moral grandstanding disguised as something else.
thevillagechief 32 minutes ago [-]
Not sure this is true anymore. X is now just pay to play. Organic engagement is completely dead there. It's all a virality game now.
watwut 25 minutes ago [-]
Moral grandstanding is much better then vice grandstanding. Moral grandstandings are good, especially in a world that think being moral makes you a looser.
That being said, there is no disguise.
cabirum 36 minutes ago [-]
So uh, could impressions decrease across the board, not only on X. Like, social platforms have peaked years ago and the downward trend is completely organic.
AlexAplin 21 minutes ago [-]
We have probably crested over some peak, but you would not look at the broad numbers and say 3% of a peak is organic to that trend. That is a dying/dead website, at least from the position of someone running socials for EFF.
There must be another reason other than the cost of effort versus value of impressions, especially when you can automate these things.
AH... there it is:
Kenyatta Thomas
Social Media and Video Manager
As the Social Media and Video Manager at EFF,
Kenyatta Thomas leads the creation of digital
content that educates and mobilizes the public
across EFF's online platforms.
They come to EFF from a background in youth and
reproductive justice advocacy and organizing,
having previously worked with organizations such
as Physicians for Reproductive Health, the National
Network of Abortion Funds, Reproaction, and
Advocates for Youth.
Their work as a sex educator and abortion doula
informs their deep commitment to community care,
access to information, and tech equity.
Kenyatta believes in the transformative power of
digital tools to advance justice and is committed
to making online spaces more inclusive, accessible,
and empowering for all.
r2_pilot 30 minutes ago [-]
I'm sorry, you didn't say anything about your reasoning behind your ad hominem attack, so I can't properly evaluate your point. I eagerly await your clarification as to the relevance of your observation with regards to this HN topic.
brindidrip 24 minutes ago [-]
If the reason for leaving X is a 97% drop in impressions, explain moving to Bluesky and Mastodon where you'll get even less. The numbers argument is a fig leaf. This is an ideological decision dressed up as strategy, and that's fine -- just say that instead of pretending it's about data. As for "ad hominem" -- pointing out that the person making the decision has an advocacy background, not a growth background, isn't an attack. I am providing context for why a "data-driven" post reads like a manifesto.
tom_ 3 minutes ago [-]
But you didn't point out that they have an advocacy background, nor contrast this with the way that somebody with a different background might behave. You just posted the bio, with a dismissive comment, and left the reader to draw... what conclusion, exactly? We're not mind readers. We can guess, but, as with any guess, we might guess wrong.
Presumably your goal was to get your point across. You could have saved yourself the time and bother of typing up a reply by stating your point, up front, clearly!
halestock 29 minutes ago [-]
There what is?
mghackerlady 32 minutes ago [-]
Person fighting for liberty fights for liberty, more at 11
ks2048 56 minutes ago [-]
> To put it bluntly, an X post today receives less than 3% of the views a single tweet delivered seven years ago.
That's a huge drop. It could be changes to the algorithm or it could be their former readers are no longer on X. I suppose it's both.
enether 45 minutes ago [-]
It could also be that the world as a whole cares less about privacy today than they did seven years ago. Without a relative measurement from a similar platform, it's a bit of an empty statement
One thing that has certainly changed is that algorithms have become more aggressive. If your content isn't performing well, it gets hidden much faster and more aggressively than before. This makes sense when you consider it from the PoV of the platforms (they have much more content to choose from)
numpad0 27 minutes ago [-]
They divide up users into groups a la Google+ groups(separate and against following/followers system) and restrict global visibility of your tweets unless you win the daily lottery, in which case your tweet gets bajilion views, or something. Attempts to bypass that system is penalized.
Not saying it's working, but I believe something like that is their current design intent of that joke of a massive backwards revolver. The way it currently works is that only those smart enough to bypass the penalization wins.
EFF reps on Twitter probably aren't "smart enough" to game that system, so they stay in the tiny group, and therefore they won't get the views.
cosmic_cheese 43 minutes ago [-]
Definitely both, potentially with one driving the other. While Twitter has always had an inclination towards quippy hot takes and similar, in its transformation into X it's taken a hard turn towards junk politically-slanted engagement bait above all else[0]. Content with any semblance of substance or nuance and especially anything misaligned with controlling interests gets buried.
The EFF is at odds with both facets of the current US administration as well as the big corporate donors in its pockets and its posts deal with nuanced topics, and so naturally its posts are among those not surfaced as often.
I'm a former EFF member and donor and have an X account. Their engagement problem isn't with X or X's members. It's with the EFF itself.
A decade ago they lost the plot. They pulled some bullshit and lied to their entire membership in order to boost their cronies/friends at the Library of Congress. They framed efforts to keep the LoC under loose Congressional/Presidential oversight and free to do as they want as some Anti-Trump fight. Requests about why they would do this went completely unanswered to the membership.
The EFF Board serves their own goals and believe themselves unaccountable to their membership, so they no longer get my money and I no longer entertain or signal boost their message.
jpadkins 46 minutes ago [-]
Old twitter embraced bots and counting bot impressions. X is more truth seeking, and hard line against bots and follower pumping.
wtfwhateven 44 minutes ago [-]
The opposite is true, actually.
realusername 39 minutes ago [-]
I would bet the opposite, Twitter was already a small competitor compared to Facebook and never reached its popularity, switching the audience to the far right likely cut down even more of what was left.
glhaynes 44 minutes ago [-]
Come on, this is embarrassing.
selectively 45 minutes ago [-]
This is literally the opposite of true. 'People' (possibly a right wing bot) like you are why I slapped together an ignore list userscript for HN.
herecomesthepre 36 minutes ago [-]
5 month-old account, whose recent post history is mostly name-calling, accusing a 15 year-old account on HN of being a bot could be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this site. Reddit has emptied its prisons.
slackfan 37 minutes ago [-]
Hey, everybody you disagree with outside of these specific parameters is a right-wing bot. It's definitely a choice, enjoy your bubble.
Glandalf 41 minutes ago [-]
This is true and it’s making the bots angry.
CrzyLngPwd 15 minutes ago [-]
Ahh, eff it, I'm also leaving :-p
numpad0 41 minutes ago [-]
> We called for:
> - Transparent content moderation: Publicly shared policies, clear appeals processes, and renewed commitment to the Santa Clara Principles
> - Real security improvements: Including genuine end-to-end encryption for direct messages
> - Greater user control: Giving users and third-party developers the means to control the user experience through filters and interoperability.
Makes sense. Especially the point 1 and 3 had been long-standing issues for Twitter since before the acquisition, and the situation had worsened since - only except that means to those became successively more adorably braindead.
kjksf 33 minutes ago [-]
Are they getting that from Bluesky? Mastodon? LinkedIn? Instagram? TikTok? Facebook?
Of course not.
And yet they leave X and only X.
orwin 25 minutes ago [-]
I don't know about the others, but mastodon: yes to all three, since before twitter was bought by Musk. Twitter interoperability use to be good though, but i don't know what they did after locking the public API. Do you have a more limited access to twitter api now? or is it still locked?
mghackerlady 26 minutes ago [-]
Because those aren't occupied by horrible people. Freedom is intersectional, you can't fight for freedom while indirectly supporting the oppression of others. Sometimes, the benefits of more eyeballs are worth it but there aren't enough people left on twitter for it to be worth supporting
benatkin 8 minutes ago [-]
Based and Zuck-pilled.
Edit: I knew this was coming:
> "But You're Still on Facebook and TikTok?"
> Yes. And we understand why that looks contradictory. Let us explain.
Too late, I already made up my mind about this. You're Mozilla to me.
thomasarmel 58 minutes ago [-]
Thanks, maybe I can suggest posting here the statement in their website instead of the tweet, in order to avoid generating traffic on X
postepowanieadm 58 minutes ago [-]
I will follow them on linkedin.
blurbleblurble 41 minutes ago [-]
More should follow them. That website is a complete cesspool at this point and if you're not noticing it I worry about how it's gonna effect your psychological wellbeing later in life. The internet is bad enough as it is, but that site is at another degree of awful.
kennywinker 1 hours ago [-]
As we all should. I’m not playing in a billionaire’s toxic propaganda sandbox, neither should you.
sirbutters 35 minutes ago [-]
Why is your comment getting shadowed. The F is wrong with HN crowd.
tpm 17 minutes ago [-]
The nazis are out in full force.
mvdtnz 24 minutes ago [-]
Drive-by reddit comments tend not to do well here. This website rewards thoughtful discussion.
24 minutes ago [-]
nslsm 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
sgt 1 hours ago [-]
A sandbox, sure, but a toxic one?
an0malous 33 minutes ago [-]
YC for sure is, HN should be separated from it and run independently. There’s tons of brigading against any criticism of YC or any of its portfolio companies. Just the other day someone re-posted OpenAI’s post about how GPT-2 was too dangerous to release (in response to the similar recent claim about Claude Mythos), I saw it hit #1 and then a few minutes later it had gotten flagged off the front page.
nslsm 59 minutes ago [-]
We all have a different definition of toxic. HN gets really toxic sometimes, but it goes with the ideology of the site, so it’s like nobody notices. And that applies to all platforms, including Twitter.
stackghost 52 minutes ago [-]
I see overt racism and sexism posted here frequently.
It's usually couched in sophisticated-sounding faux-intellectual language, though, which is the key to posting whatever you want here. You can say literally anything on HN, so long as you camouflage it with SV techbro vernacular.
sgt 32 minutes ago [-]
I don't even know what your thresholds are. They could be very low, like misgendering something and you see it as sexism - or simply refusing to call someone "they". For all I know you could be one of those people who stand up and call that sexism or transmisogyny.
krapp 10 minutes ago [-]
Misgendering someone or refusing to recognize their gender identity is sexism and transmisogyny.
sepisoad 6 minutes ago [-]
bye!
oulipo2 19 minutes ago [-]
At long last. It should be the case with everybody.
Those who stay there because "it's practical", or worse they like it, or worse they support Musk, should be ashamed
bko 44 minutes ago [-]
> Musk fired the entire human rights team and laid off staffers in countries where the company previously fought off censorship demands from repressive regimes
Is the contention here that there is more censorship on X compared to Twitter pre acquisition? Is X more heavily censored than Facebook or TikTok
They go on to say they're still on Facebook and TikTok and explain:
> The people who need us most are often the ones most embedded in the walled gardens of the mainstream platforms and subjected to their corporate surveillance.
None of this is unique to Facebook and TikTok and not for X.
> Young people, people of color, queer folks, activists, and organizers use Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook every day
I'm pretty sure all these demographics use X as well.
It's just so bizarre. If you want to reach people, esp people that maybe come from a different perspective from you, why would you opt out of the best way to get your message across?
ceejayoz 41 minutes ago [-]
> Is the contention here that there is more censorship on X compared to Twitter pre acquisition?
Twitter's own first published transparency report under Musk acknowledged they suspended 3x as many accounts (for policy reasons other than spamming) in six months as they had done over an equivalent period just before he acquired it.
bko 36 minutes ago [-]
That's where you draw the line? Does a social media allow you to dox the owner's location? A true test of free speech!
There are many accounts that show the flight paths but on a 24h delay. I see that as reasonable. It allows you to do view the data but there is no security risk.
Meanwhile people were banned off twitter for saying "men are not women".
ceejayoz 34 minutes ago [-]
> That's where you draw the line?
Yes, a "free-speech absolutist" who explicitly promised to preserve a very specific example of free speech on explicit free speech grounds immediately banned the account when he was able to.
And then he banned reporters for reporting on it.
It's the easiest possible example to demonstrate his principles were never genuine here.
> Falsely labeling non-violent people as “fascist” or “Nazi” should be treated as incitement to murder
That's not very free speech, right?
subjectsigma 30 minutes ago [-]
There was never any security risk, the flight data was and is public information. You should be able to say “men are not women” and also repost public data. Stop pretending Elon cares about free speech.
inkysigma 2 minutes ago [-]
X under Musk has sustained more government takedown requests.
To talk to a botnet? no thanks. You can decide to just not feed into twitter.
an0malous 41 minutes ago [-]
I closed my X account Tuesday evening after the US-Iran ceasefire was announced. Something just snapped finally and I realized there’s no value in monitoring the situation and all these accounts are just monetizing my energy and attention with no value provided.
The only social media I’m going to keep for now is Reddit and YouTube because I think it’s still a net positive for the educational content, but even those are on the chopping block for me. The whole Internet is being capitalized into junk food, people just push out sensationalized low calorie garbage because they get paid per view. It’s sad to see.
loeg 25 minutes ago [-]
You're keeping Reddit of all places? If you want a net win for attention and value, Reddit ain't it.
orwin 23 minutes ago [-]
Reddit is a lot of different things and places. Some subreddit are basically PhpBB forums of old. Though now that discord seemingly took over, most of the closed communities i was part of went there, i don't think i connect more than once a month on average.
sirbutters 33 minutes ago [-]
How the hell is this comment shadowed? It's 100% true.
tamimio 6 minutes ago [-]
I feel I am grateful that I never used social media even when they were cool and fun, I always thought it’s vanity “farming”, except now it’s some people’s full time jobs in grifting and being edgy just to farm impressions aka money. Social media is ruined because of monetization, it tapped onto the oldest vulnerability in humanity: greed.
mindslight 22 minutes ago [-]
While I agree with where the EFF is generally coming from, it would make much more sense to just syndicate posts from a libre solution. They could even do adversarial interoperability things. Imagine something akin to a Matrix bridge such that replies on Xitter show up on Masto or some other libre protocol solution, so they (and others) can engage with replies right in the libre ecosystem. Or perhaps every nth of their xits not being the original post verbatim, but rather a link directing people to a web implementation of the libre solution with links to go deeper into that ecosystem. This type of thing would be perfectly in line with the EFF's goals. And not being able to get it together to do even this much is quite sad.
57 minutes ago [-]
colechristensen 60 minutes ago [-]
TL;DR
Nobody reads their posts on Twitter any more because most of the people are gone.
Vaslo 7 minutes ago [-]
lol what? Still hundreds of millions of users on X.
Polarity 39 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
novateg 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
feature20260213 26 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
Ir0nMan 53 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
mort96 50 minutes ago [-]
> you could just post less or use it for major updates
Why?
Brendinooo 27 minutes ago [-]
If you think something like "open source is good" or "patent trolling is bad" and you want to advocate for those things, you should want to maximize your reach and do what you can to demonstrate that these are not inherently partisan issues, because if people start to perceive that the things that the EFF cares about are bound up with partisan ideology, then it will be dismissed as such.
(It's also buying into the narrative that X is a ideological monolith. It, of course, is not. But it does lean a different way than other major social media platforms, which means there's a unique opportunity to speak to a different kind of audience!)
dijit 40 minutes ago [-]
because it’s a marketing channel/feed, just like any other.
meeting people where they are doesn’t inherently mean you support where they are. You just meet the people themselves.
It’s not like X is really gaining anything from the EFF, so it feels a little bit performative. Sure.
orwin 22 minutes ago [-]
Do you have the API access on twitter back? because if not, it's not like any other. it's more bothersome to power users. I thought people on HN of all places would understand that.
dijit 20 minutes ago [-]
Idk, I have to use Microsoft utilities for work (yay! game development!), and I feel like opening twitter and pasting something is lower friction than trying to do Teams automation.
orwin 12 minutes ago [-]
Good luck, worked on that a few weeks ago actually. Once you get it working though, you can just forget it (that's what i did).
For twitter and EFF, it's a work account, so probably 2FA with a timeout. You have to connect to it, pass the 2FA, then click, then copy paste. Or you can just log in to your tool, and post simultaneously on linkedin/mastodon (i don't know about the others, never used them). If your tool is well integrated, you can also just post on your company blog, and all social media wiht a public API are updated at the same time. TBH i don't really use social media, but i understand the "it's not big enough to loose 10 minutes each day, let's drop it if they don't fix their shitty API".
ericmay 48 minutes ago [-]
It just seems like they are unhappy with the algorithm, and like any customer for any service you can cancel service, say why you are canceling service, and move to alternatives especially when your concerns aren't addressed.
Then again, who cares one way or the other?
kjksf 35 minutes ago [-]
And yet they post on Bluesky and Mastodon. If it's about effort vs. impressions, leaving X doesn't sound like a rational decision.
ericmay 26 minutes ago [-]
Seems like they prefer those platforms and perhaps the algorithm works better for their goals. Maybe they'll grow users over time and it'll be better for the EFF on a post/engagement ratio. Maybe more engaging users are on those platforms? I'm not fan of Bluesky (interactions I've seen are racist and/or far-left lunatics or communists and other such water heads), but then again who cares where they post?
staplers 50 minutes ago [-]
We all perform everyday. Those performances eventually become our identity and influence our actions.
tempaccountabcd 35 minutes ago [-]
[dead]
novateg 1 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
ecshafer 23 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
mghackerlady 22 minutes ago [-]
>defending child murder as well
explain
ecshafer 15 minutes ago [-]
One of their posts that they themselves link is supporting abortion. I am not sure how abortion connects with my right to not disclose information about myself or digital rights.
so... fighting for the exact kind of freedom they've fought for since day 1? Being against illegal invasions of privacy means being against it even when it becomes beneficial to prosecuting child murder
throwawaypath 44 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
martinky24 43 minutes ago [-]
From a throwaway...
43 minutes ago [-]
nailer 21 minutes ago [-]
> Musk fired the entire human rights team and laid off staffers in countries where the company previously fought off censorship demands from repressive regimes.
X fired a “Trust and Safety” team that was spending time enforcing gender ideology rather than working on scalable solutions to trust and safety. Community Notes wouldn’t have happened without X.
How lazy do you have to be to not like this math. They act like tweeting is some sort of significant effort.
alwa 52 minutes ago [-]
I read “the math” there as doing something a little more figurative. It seemed to me like they led with circulation figures less because they care about their CPM efficiency or whatever, and more to use “views” as a kind of synechdoche for “the people who want to hear what we have to say.”
ceejayoz 43 minutes ago [-]
Brand reputation from staying on Twitter is part of the math.
tempaccountabcd 40 minutes ago [-]
How could you possibly lose reputation from that?
minimaxir 56 minutes ago [-]
Tweeting is easy. Managing the weirdos that respond to your tweets is hard.
anonymousiam 40 minutes ago [-]
I left EFF last year. I was a top-tier donor for 20 years, but EFF has changed from neutral rights-focused activism into questionable political activism. Leaving X is just another example of it. Would EFF be leaving X if Elon had not taken over? Does EFF actually believe that there's more free speech on Facebook?
quaverquaver 15 minutes ago [-]
X is a rare platform where an individual manipulates the algorithm per his own personal political whims. And, yes he is explicitly racist and anti-democratic. No org that cares about freedom should contribute to what is really a personal effort to commandeer the information environment.
benlivengood 2 minutes ago [-]
The EFF has always been against a large political segment, namely the status quo of "long-term intellectual property good, DRM good, businesses have the right to do whatever they want with data they collect, businesses have the right to arbitrarily use de-facto monopolies on computing platforms" which make no mistake were never neutral positions about rights.
mghackerlady 28 minutes ago [-]
They're leaving because the platform because of a combination of not enough real people and elon turning it into a nazi hellscape. The visibility isn't worth the hit to brand reputation which makes sense if you recognise liberty as intersectional
kevincrane 29 minutes ago [-]
Just to clarify, until recently you were under the impression that the political advocacy organization you donated to had no political opinions of their own?
loeg 23 minutes ago [-]
GP is complaining about a shift from one set of positions to a different set.
feature20260213 20 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
contagiousflow 14 minutes ago [-]
You think the EFF was not political before 2024?
mghackerlady 17 minutes ago [-]
TDS/EDS don't exist, it's called not liking fascists and not supporting them any more than you have to because they directly oppose your goals
feature20260213 5 minutes ago [-]
You have no fucking clue what a fascist is your uneducated retard
dbingham 23 minutes ago [-]
In a two party world where one of those parties has been captured by a fascist movement, there is no "political neutrality". You're either pro-fascist or anti-fascist. And if you care about rights at all, including free speech, then the correct alignment is anti-fascist.
And yes, this is a US centric comment. The EFF is a US based organization and the center of gravity of the tech world they deal with is in the US.
bitwize 16 minutes ago [-]
People who fight for individual rights kinda have a problem with Nazis. Big freaking surprise.
blurbleblurble 39 minutes ago [-]
[flagged]
anonymousiam 35 minutes ago [-]
Please elaborate. What political views did I express or advocate, other than free speech?
ApolloFortyNine 41 minutes ago [-]
This reads like the classic Youtuber whose annoyed their views dropped (this almost always amounts to 'people don't actually like your content as much as you thought').
>We posted to Twitter (now known as X) five to ten times a day in 2018. Those tweets garnered somewhere between 50 and 100 million impressions per month. By 2024, our 2,500 X posts generated around 2 million impressions each month. Last year, our 1,500 posts earned roughly 13 million impressions for the entire year. To put it bluntly, an X post today receives less than 3% of the views a single tweet delivered seven years ago.
It's incredibly unlikely someone at X shoved the EFF in a 'low visibility' bucket. It's much more likely they've simply updated their alogorithms and the EFF doesn't hit some engagement metric.
They're still getting 13 million impressions by simply posting tweets, I really don't understand 'taking a stand' here. Instead of 13 million they'll simply get 0... The opportunity cost in the worst case is a human being copy pasting a tweet, there's plenty of software to schedule posts across platforms though, which would make it essentially free even in user time.
Imo, they had a 'personal stance' motivation, and dug deep for any reason to argue for it.
otherme123 4 minutes ago [-]
I work as a consultant for a small media, zero politics and very technical, and they report the same trend for X for the last 5 years or so. I was surprised that they told me they still want the "share on Twitter button" and keep the Twitter account but their activity there is nil, for the following reasons combined: 1) they have thousands of followers and thousands of impressions, but the engagement ratio (likes, comment, shares per follower) is abysmal compared with the other networks, 2) the format is different from other networks, while you can create something common for LinkedIn or Facebook, the Twitter share requires image re-crop and text rewrite (they don't use Instagram, the content doesn't fit) 3) while the main site receives a lot of clicks to read the full content (and see the ads that drive the income) from LinkedIn and Facebook, Twitter doesn't send clicks (people just read the header, at most hit the like-heart, and keep scrolling). Their conclusion: Twitter doesn't work any more for them and is getting worse (that said, BlueSky is even worse for them). Even spending 30 seconds there to polish a publication are 30 seconds wasted.
I don't know the numbers for EFF, but having 400K followers on X and getting between zero and five comments per post if you go back a couple of weeks (to skip today's fire), between zero and 20 retweets... sounds like a failed platform. They get better numbers from Facebook, a dying platform, with half the followers. They get similar or better numbers from Instagram with less than 10% of the followers they have in Twitter.
pdpi 35 minutes ago [-]
> It's much more likely they've simply updated their alogorithms and the EFF doesn't hit some engagement metric.
It's even more likely that Twitter's audience in 2018 was fairly supportive of the EFF's goals, but X's audience in 2026 is either indifferent or hostile.
As they put it:
> X is no longer where the fight is happening. The platform Musk took over was imperfect but impactful. What exists today is something else: diminished, and increasingly de minimis.
lambdas 33 minutes ago [-]
I don’t feel their stance is “I’m not getting enough attention and it’s all Musk’s fault and I’m leaving”.
More “X is simply not worth our time anymore”. I can’t say with any certainty that X is on a death spiral (personally it does feel that way), but the kind of crowd who have remained in spite of Musk’s many public embarrassments (and the handling of Grok deep fakes and women) probably aren’t the kind who are passionate about the EFF
dpweb 39 minutes ago [-]
However if you view your content as valuable and the algorithm does not anymore, it's probably not the best platform for you to be on.
rapax 10 minutes ago [-]
"Young people, people of color, queer folks, activists, and organizers use Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook every day."
What was wrong with just saying people instead of this nonsense? EFF has been a joke for a while now so has every organization that does something for people. It's just a box that can be ticked when someone asks something stupid like "who protects some imaginary rights".
txrx0000 47 minutes ago [-]
This is unfortunate. Elon despite his flaws opposes mass surveillance and censorship, and that's the general sentiment on X at the moment. He just retweeted the Telegram founder 20 hours ago. [0]
I'm afraid we're being divided and conquered. The people pushing for mass control are attempting to reframe the fight for digital freedoms as a "leftist" talking point, so that they can later ride the populist wave and use its momentum to kill online free speech and general purpose computing altogether. Perhaps the EFF has been compromised, because it should not be falling for this trick. It would be wise to use all of the information channels available to reach as many people as possible.
This is to laughably misguided that it leans toward malicious.
I mean, you're talking about Elon, the Doge guy, the one who organized mass hoovering of citizens data from whatever sources he could get his grubby mitts on? That Elon?
Opposed to mass surveillance??
And then you sprinkle some commonly known truths on top to make your comment palatable ("we're being divided and conquered!"), and finally you add a dash of malicious speculation to seed some doubt against the organization ("Perhaps the EFF has been compromised!! It's a trick!!").
No thanks.
subjectsigma 24 minutes ago [-]
It is malicious, and you shouldn’t be downvoted for calling out someone who is so obviously arguing in bad faith.
txrx0000 19 minutes ago [-]
Not arguing in bad faith. Go read my past comments. I'm pretty consistent on this.
moritzwarhier 41 minutes ago [-]
> Elon despite his flaws opposes mass surveillance and censorship, and that's the general sentiment on X at the moment. He just retweeted the Telegram founder 20 hours ago.
There are probably things more relevant about X than what it is that Elon Musk currently proclaims about his political opinions?
fontain 42 minutes ago [-]
Elon is anti-censorship when it’s censorship of racism, homophobia, sexism and the other things the woke liberal left hate.
Elon is pro-censorship for the things he doesn’t like, like the word “cis”.
You can be happy that Elon is allowing alt-right speech, that’s fair, he has brought that back to Twitter, slurs are finally allowed again, truly the speech we all long for, but anti-censorship as a principle? Please. Pull the other one.
bradley13 51 minutes ago [-]
So they're still getting a million impressions s month, and that's not interesting Anyway, putting something up on Instagram and then also on X - that's pretty low effort, no? Weird decision...
Also: 1500 posts per year, so around 4 per day - a bit much. There just aren't four important topics to talk about each and every day. Honestly, I wouldn't subscribe to that either. Maybe that's part of why their numbers are going down...
Rendered at 18:21:11 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Vercel.
I'm not sure why xorg exists if their sole purpose is to kill x. As per the many posts by their developers.
They would have been absolutely appalled and ashamed to see a business leader throwing those salutes and backing it up with talk of a "white homeland" and similar comments.
I find it deeply dismaying that people consider that "just politics" or that opposing it is "ideological". We can argue all day about the proper rate of corporate taxation or debate the best way to implement environmental regulations, and I will not consider you a bad person if you disagree with me. But the kind of crap coming out of that guy? That's beyond politics.
But I've yet to see someone show video of a prominent democrat doing the same salute as Musk. Which is probably why it's left as an exercise for the reader to find.
That said, we don't need to speculate about his salute when you can look directly at the slop he posts on Twitter.
"It is thanks to you that the future of civilization is assured."
it's an absolute joke anyone disputes what he did
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GKQjIOFuGs&t=192s
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i6par1/elon_musk_vs_...
It seemed pretty blatant to me if you watch the whole video, the chest pound and the clear arm/hand extension really makes it difficult to see as anything else.
It was distinctly different from the stills of other politicians waving that often get used as comparison by trolls trying to defend it... when you compare videos the difference is not even questionable.
Like many on the right, Elon is super wrong on immigration, trans rights, and even about how to achieve his own stated goals, as projected onto politics.
But it's important to be objective, and charitable.
> business leader throwing those salutes and backing it up with talk of a "white homeland"
It is not every commenter's duty to cite their sources when you have the ability to easily infer the context and search the internet. These are very well documented actions that they refer to. Your attempts to drive sentiment through casting doubt are noticed.
Through that lens, I guess it makes sense that they see TikTok, Instagram, and BlueSky as worth their time and presence but not X.
Of course they care about ideological concerns.
I'll ask you then: What are the three main areas of advocacy that you think the EFF has been the most visible and/or effective?
> The Numbers Aren't Working Out
I don't know. That's front and center. Can to share how that's an "outright rejection"?
What is your working definition of freedom?
No one has asserted this.
If your views suck, people have the freedom to say "ok, bye".
(Musk asserts otherwise, of course. https://www.npr.org/2025/02/01/nx-s1-5283271/elon-musk-lawsu...)
Yes they have:
> freedom is intersectional.
This person said freedom requires insectionality, and intersectionality requires me to believe that men are women, that Jewish people having missiles aimed at their houses by terrorists are bad and that Hamas is good, in racist hiring policies, and other evil beliefs.
So I'm not free to assert moral reasons for my actions?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-elon-musk-uses-his...
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/04/23/business/elon...
That is the exact opposite of what that means. It means freedom should be supported for all, especially for the oppressed. Those who stand for oppression in one way serve to benefit other forms of oppression
I believe in freedom of speech for people that I don't want to talk to. There is no contradiction in that.
Because what I read is that their X posts are getting only 3% of the engagement compared to pre-Musk Twitter.
The post insinuates that's because the platform intentionally down-ranks posts for ideological purposes.
https://www.fire.org/
You have to scroll down a bit further to find their real reason for preferring those sites:
> people of color, queer folks, activists, and organizers use Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook every day
[0] https://www.threads.com/@efforg
Threads has more daily active users than X and is growing quickly vs. the latter’s cratering usage rates. Demographics trend younger, too.
Which is fine but just be honest about it.
Anyway,
> Twitter was never a utopia. We've criticized the platform for about as long as it’s been around. Still, Twitter did deserve recognition from time to time for vociferously fighting for its users’ rights. That changed. Musk fired the entire human rights team and laid off staffers in countries where the company previously fought off censorship demands from repressive regimes. Many users left. Today we're joining them.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2026/04/eff-leaving-x
I had respect for the EFF but this post is very disingenuous. Makes it seem like the decision is based on numbers yet they share no impression numbers for the other platforms.
Seems like they've become just another NGO with a hidden agenda.
I think people were just upset certain figures were held to the TOS.
It's a perfect analogue for asking confederate fans, "state's rights to do what?"
If you aren't kicking nazis out of your bar, it'll become a nazi bar. Twitter stopped kicking out the nazis
You're presumably referencing Missouri v. Biden, to which the EFF did file an amicus[1]. In it, they note,
> Many platforms have potentially problematic “trusted flagger” programs in which certain groups and individuals enjoy “some degree of priority in the processing of notices
> Of course, governmental participation in content moderation processes raises First Amendment issues not present with non-governmental inputs
With there overall opinion being something like "content moderation is normal, the government flagging content is also normal, and there are instances where the government's flagging of content moderation can be fine & not run afoul of 1A, but there are instances where it can, and we urge the court to think"
[1]: https://www.eff.org/document/missouri-v-biden-amicus-brief
Conservative talking points were fucking everywhere, and still are.
I think that says it all.
(Of course the EFF are ideological, that's their entire purpose!)
And like it or not - Twitter is still the preferred communication platform of quite a few influential people.
They are an organization that exists to support an ideological viewpoint. Any political stance is ideological!
It would be dishonest of them to pretend they were not ideological. Staying on Twitter was likely worse for their mission then leaving it.
What is dishonest is to write as if there was something wrong with leaving twittwr for "ideological" reasons.
All six of the speakers immediately said Twitter was realistically the only place you can keep up with the conversation. Having an extensively curated list means that anytime anything breaks (and often a few hours before) you are going to hear about it on X/Twitter.
I would love to know if there is anything even close to the reach of X. It has a lot of problems - but if you want to track breaking news, I can't think of anything else close to it.
I think I lasted <1 week after this takeover.
I'm more astounded that people think every single part of it is a cesspool when in reality there are gems to be found that aren't in any other X alternative like Bluesky or Mastodon or (lol) Threads.
Still, I'd advocate to leave social media in general. And certainly to get off twitter.
Yeah, somewhere where regular people that aren't terminally online won't ever have the chance to see it. This is a dumb decision. I'd very much like for open, distributed social networks to win, but that's not a reality we'll be living in anytime soon. X, for better or worse, gets you eyes, more so than any other alternative social media.
For EFF: That's ~15 years too late, and way too specific. Their job (without them ever having realized in fact) was to generate some force against these centralized commercial walled gardens, where we have our public discourse, with some opaque algorithms deciding what goes up and what goes down.
Assuming they use the same principles everywhere, they're getting more views on Mastodon and Bluesky? That is surprising.
If you hang out in a bar with KKK memorabilia everywhere - and open the replies of any reasonably popular news story on X before complaining that's not a fair comparison - people make conclusions off your presence, even if you're personally there for the tasty beer.
Which is ironic, considering the type of fanbase the EFF had (and still has), that has largely been overshadowed by people who behave this way when given the chance to have an objective discussion.
It's clear this is about politics, and I'm not opposed to that, Elon is not awesome, but trying to justify it otherwise seems kind of shady.
The golden days of the sentinels driving traffic without you paying for it are over, and they won't come back.
For example, they list a few of reasons that leaving social media isn't viable for everyone, including "Your abortion fund uses TikTok to spread crucial information."
I support reproductive rights! But I don't want EFF to do that, and I don't want EFF to push conservatives out of the movement. I want EFF to appeal to everyone who cares about digital civil liberties, including people who disagree with me on other issues.
Don't get me started on tiktok...
I left Twitter, Facebook, et al about a decade ago. And I can assure you: You will never miss any important development.
The notion that we need to plugged into Twitter, X, whatever, to stay up to date is simply false.
I think the only practical consequence is that EFF loses some fraction of audience.
If you don't that is fine but I imagine you would also hold the view that not posting on X shouldn't be controversial then either.
I applaud the move and only wish they would have done it sooner.
But i would bet social media managers use similar tools, and the fact that no one can access twitter API might add just the little bit of friction you want to avoid.
That being said, there is no disguise.
https://flowingdata.com/2025/10/03/passed-peak-social-media-...
AH... there it is:
Presumably your goal was to get your point across. You could have saved yourself the time and bother of typing up a reply by stating your point, up front, clearly!
That's a huge drop. It could be changes to the algorithm or it could be their former readers are no longer on X. I suppose it's both.
One thing that has certainly changed is that algorithms have become more aggressive. If your content isn't performing well, it gets hidden much faster and more aggressively than before. This makes sense when you consider it from the PoV of the platforms (they have much more content to choose from)
Not saying it's working, but I believe something like that is their current design intent of that joke of a massive backwards revolver. The way it currently works is that only those smart enough to bypass the penalization wins.
EFF reps on Twitter probably aren't "smart enough" to game that system, so they stay in the tiny group, and therefore they won't get the views.
The EFF is at odds with both facets of the current US administration as well as the big corporate donors in its pockets and its posts deal with nuanced topics, and so naturally its posts are among those not surfaced as often.
[0]: https://substack.com/home/post/p-193285131
A decade ago they lost the plot. They pulled some bullshit and lied to their entire membership in order to boost their cronies/friends at the Library of Congress. They framed efforts to keep the LoC under loose Congressional/Presidential oversight and free to do as they want as some Anti-Trump fight. Requests about why they would do this went completely unanswered to the membership.
The EFF Board serves their own goals and believe themselves unaccountable to their membership, so they no longer get my money and I no longer entertain or signal boost their message.
Of course not.
And yet they leave X and only X.
Edit: I knew this was coming:
> "But You're Still on Facebook and TikTok?"
> Yes. And we understand why that looks contradictory. Let us explain.
Too late, I already made up my mind about this. You're Mozilla to me.
It's usually couched in sophisticated-sounding faux-intellectual language, though, which is the key to posting whatever you want here. You can say literally anything on HN, so long as you camouflage it with SV techbro vernacular.
Those who stay there because "it's practical", or worse they like it, or worse they support Musk, should be ashamed
Is the contention here that there is more censorship on X compared to Twitter pre acquisition? Is X more heavily censored than Facebook or TikTok
They go on to say they're still on Facebook and TikTok and explain:
> The people who need us most are often the ones most embedded in the walled gardens of the mainstream platforms and subjected to their corporate surveillance.
None of this is unique to Facebook and TikTok and not for X.
> Young people, people of color, queer folks, activists, and organizers use Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook every day
I'm pretty sure all these demographics use X as well.
It's just so bizarre. If you want to reach people, esp people that maybe come from a different perspective from you, why would you opt out of the best way to get your message across?
That's easy to sustain.
Pre-acquisition: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456
Post-acquisition: https://x.com/elonjet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2022_Twitter_suspensi...
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1993828797066748081
There are many accounts that show the flight paths but on a 24h delay. I see that as reasonable. It allows you to do view the data but there is no security risk.
Meanwhile people were banned off twitter for saying "men are not women".
Yes, a "free-speech absolutist" who explicitly promised to preserve a very specific example of free speech on explicit free speech grounds immediately banned the account when he was able to.
And then he banned reporters for reporting on it.
It's the easiest possible example to demonstrate his principles were never genuine here.
See also: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1993828797066748081
> Falsely labeling non-violent people as “fascist” or “Nazi” should be treated as incitement to murder
That's not very free speech, right?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/09/25/elon-mu...
The only social media I’m going to keep for now is Reddit and YouTube because I think it’s still a net positive for the educational content, but even those are on the chopping block for me. The whole Internet is being capitalized into junk food, people just push out sensationalized low calorie garbage because they get paid per view. It’s sad to see.
Nobody reads their posts on Twitter any more because most of the people are gone.
Why?
(It's also buying into the narrative that X is a ideological monolith. It, of course, is not. But it does lean a different way than other major social media platforms, which means there's a unique opportunity to speak to a different kind of audience!)
meeting people where they are doesn’t inherently mean you support where they are. You just meet the people themselves.
It’s not like X is really gaining anything from the EFF, so it feels a little bit performative. Sure.
For twitter and EFF, it's a work account, so probably 2FA with a timeout. You have to connect to it, pass the 2FA, then click, then copy paste. Or you can just log in to your tool, and post simultaneously on linkedin/mastodon (i don't know about the others, never used them). If your tool is well integrated, you can also just post on your company blog, and all social media wiht a public API are updated at the same time. TBH i don't really use social media, but i understand the "it's not big enough to loose 10 minutes each day, let's drop it if they don't fix their shitty API".
Then again, who cares one way or the other?
explain
X fired a “Trust and Safety” team that was spending time enforcing gender ideology rather than working on scalable solutions to trust and safety. Community Notes wouldn’t have happened without X.
How lazy do you have to be to not like this math. They act like tweeting is some sort of significant effort.
And yes, this is a US centric comment. The EFF is a US based organization and the center of gravity of the tech world they deal with is in the US.
>We posted to Twitter (now known as X) five to ten times a day in 2018. Those tweets garnered somewhere between 50 and 100 million impressions per month. By 2024, our 2,500 X posts generated around 2 million impressions each month. Last year, our 1,500 posts earned roughly 13 million impressions for the entire year. To put it bluntly, an X post today receives less than 3% of the views a single tweet delivered seven years ago.
It's incredibly unlikely someone at X shoved the EFF in a 'low visibility' bucket. It's much more likely they've simply updated their alogorithms and the EFF doesn't hit some engagement metric.
They're still getting 13 million impressions by simply posting tweets, I really don't understand 'taking a stand' here. Instead of 13 million they'll simply get 0... The opportunity cost in the worst case is a human being copy pasting a tweet, there's plenty of software to schedule posts across platforms though, which would make it essentially free even in user time.
Imo, they had a 'personal stance' motivation, and dug deep for any reason to argue for it.
I don't know the numbers for EFF, but having 400K followers on X and getting between zero and five comments per post if you go back a couple of weeks (to skip today's fire), between zero and 20 retweets... sounds like a failed platform. They get better numbers from Facebook, a dying platform, with half the followers. They get similar or better numbers from Instagram with less than 10% of the followers they have in Twitter.
It's even more likely that Twitter's audience in 2018 was fairly supportive of the EFF's goals, but X's audience in 2026 is either indifferent or hostile.
As they put it:
> X is no longer where the fight is happening. The platform Musk took over was imperfect but impactful. What exists today is something else: diminished, and increasingly de minimis.
More “X is simply not worth our time anymore”. I can’t say with any certainty that X is on a death spiral (personally it does feel that way), but the kind of crowd who have remained in spite of Musk’s many public embarrassments (and the handling of Grok deep fakes and women) probably aren’t the kind who are passionate about the EFF
What was wrong with just saying people instead of this nonsense? EFF has been a joke for a while now so has every organization that does something for people. It's just a box that can be ticked when someone asks something stupid like "who protects some imaginary rights".
I'm afraid we're being divided and conquered. The people pushing for mass control are attempting to reframe the fight for digital freedoms as a "leftist" talking point, so that they can later ride the populist wave and use its momentum to kill online free speech and general purpose computing altogether. Perhaps the EFF has been compromised, because it should not be falling for this trick. It would be wise to use all of the information channels available to reach as many people as possible.
[0] https://nitter.net/durov/status/2041979377773133898#m
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/09/25/elon-mu...
Comical.
> It would be wise to use all of the information channels available to reach as many people as possible.
How about their website, which is accessible to everyone because it doesn't require you to log in?
Sure, just like he was pro-free speech, until he suddenly wasn't.
His broken promise not to ban @elonjet is still up. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1589414958508691456
I mean, you're talking about Elon, the Doge guy, the one who organized mass hoovering of citizens data from whatever sources he could get his grubby mitts on? That Elon?
Opposed to mass surveillance??
And then you sprinkle some commonly known truths on top to make your comment palatable ("we're being divided and conquered!"), and finally you add a dash of malicious speculation to seed some doubt against the organization ("Perhaps the EFF has been compromised!! It's a trick!!").
No thanks.
There are probably things more relevant about X than what it is that Elon Musk currently proclaims about his political opinions?
Elon is pro-censorship for the things he doesn’t like, like the word “cis”.
You can be happy that Elon is allowing alt-right speech, that’s fair, he has brought that back to Twitter, slurs are finally allowed again, truly the speech we all long for, but anti-censorship as a principle? Please. Pull the other one.
Also: 1500 posts per year, so around 4 per day - a bit much. There just aren't four important topics to talk about each and every day. Honestly, I wouldn't subscribe to that either. Maybe that's part of why their numbers are going down...