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Hollow Knight: Silksong Causes Server Chaos on Xbox, Steam, and Nintendo (eurogamer.net)
myrmidon 2 hours ago [-]
There is not a lot of computer games that I would classify as art instead of just entertainment, but Hollow knight is definitely one of those.

It's success is well-deserved.

thor-rodrigues 1 hours ago [-]
Certainly well-deserved.

I have a similar list of _art_ instead of most _entertainment_, and Hollow Kight there together with Disco Elysium

dingnuts 14 minutes ago [-]
Ugh, I wanted to like Disco Elysium but if you're not an actual communist I don't know how you can. It's just propaganda: art made to push a political message. Good art, but still cheapened by the heavy handed messaging.

Or maybe I'm just stupid. I didn't finish it, because its fans told me that if I liked it and wasn't a Communist, I was missing the point that it was mocking me.

Well, I believe in free markets, so I stopped playing the game that was mocking me, and regret buying it. I was hoping the message would be more of a nuanced criticism of ideology but I guess it's not.

Like I said, maybe I'm just stupid.

empiko 5 minutes ago [-]
The game is mocking all the political ideologies and many other aspects of current society. It is a satire.
yapyap 1 hours ago [-]
Exactly, just like Spelunky 2 and Ufo 50
egeres 1 hours ago [-]
I'm probably being naive, but I feel surprised that in 2025, a platform like Steam (which has existed for well over 2 decades and has around 70M DAU) is having this type of issues. I don't want to downplay the complex engineering behind scale and massive surges of demand, but it's not like it's their first rodeo. What seems to be blocking users from getting the game is accepting payments, nothing computationally complex per se IMO
mpartel 57 minutes ago [-]
Huge spikes over a short period of time are hard to deal with for anyone, and payment processors have their own infra whose scalability Steam can't necessarily control.
bilekas 53 minutes ago [-]
No system is completely redundant proof. It's just a matter of money and infrastructure. They didn't have any preorder system in place even so everyone had to search, buy and download all at the same time. It's probably close if not more than a million people waiting for a countdown to buy it.

Bad planning, maybe but definitely not a conspiracy against the game.

shadowgovt 35 minutes ago [-]
In this specific instance, I am mildly surprised preorders weren't offered. That would have taken some load off their servers and granted them money sooner; win-win for them.
egeres 7 minutes ago [-]
That's because the studio's ethics are against pre-orders (and of course any type of lootboxes, microtransactions etc). I'm also happy they settled on a relatively low price tag of 19.50€, other studios would have marked it around 60€ to milk their users wallets taking advantage of all the anticipation and hype behind the game, kudos to team cherry
shadowgovt 36 minutes ago [-]
Payment systems turn out to be particularly thorny because they hit an intersection of technical issues with conflicting goals:

* You want them to be as fast as possible (ideally: instantaneous)

* You want them to be validated (long-poll to a third party validation service)

* You need them to be sequentially auditable (this is a "... or you could go to jail" requirement)

* If a failure occurs, you don't want to be out your own money

While these are solvable, it's the reason that so many cloud services suddenly hit scaling issues at the payments layer: things are going great and then that layer gets involved and "oops, hold on, we're waiting on Visa's servers. Still waiting. Stillllll waiiiiiting..........." Or the team was certain they'd simultaneously solved speed and sequential auditability this time but, oops, there's yet another sequencing point that's actually a bottleneck.

apierre_cardoso 2 hours ago [-]
It’s a curious situation, the reason why it’s not pulling record sales in the first hours, is because nobody can buy it since everybody is trying to buy it at the same time. Steam store checkout is off for 2h already!
Figs 2 hours ago [-]
Zren 2 hours ago [-]
Wait the original was only $15?! I got Hollow Knight in a Humble Bundle so I had no idea how cheap that amazing game was.

No wonder Silksong is only $20. I saw the memes about the devs asking for $20 and assumed it was $20 more like $60=>$80 or something like that.

57 minutes ago [-]
danaris 35 minutes ago [-]
Same. Bought it about 45 minutes after it launched, and though the download was a bit slow, it was steady and installed just fine.
a_shovel 2 hours ago [-]
Perhaps allowing preorders for a day or two might have helped spread the load? Or at least moved it earlier so that the checkout load didn't overlap with the load from users downloading.
jijikuya 31 minutes ago [-]
1. That's Valve's prerogative, not the developer's. If they're not partnered with Valve they may not have had the option to enact pre-purchases. [1]

2. The game has no DRM and Steam preorders (in my experience) download the game files so people can play instantly on launch day. (They call it 'preloading'). For a game as highly anticipated as this, it'd likely just be cracked, leaked and pirated the moment preorders came live.

[1]: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/store/prepurchase

NobodyNada 16 minutes ago [-]
#2 seems like a technically solvable problem: AES-encrypt the preload and distribute the key on launch day.
rozab 1 hours ago [-]
I was thinking about this for the recent GMTK game jam, which crashed itch.io.

Is it really such a bad thing for your launch/event to crash a platform? Nobody is going to decide not to buy Silksong after all because it's so wildly popular it brought down Steam. It generates a great deal of positive headlines. To me it seems like a good problem to have.

adamesque 2 hours ago [-]
Very surprised they didn’t do preorders for this
WithinReason 2 hours ago [-]
They get extra publicity for crashing Steam. That's quite an achievement these days!
AndrewDucker 3 hours ago [-]
Shared mostly as an example of how sometimes even the big sites can't stay up when too many people try to use them at once.
kenhwang 52 minutes ago [-]
Nintendo, PS, and to an extent Xbox I'd expect to go down if someone even looked at it wrong given their historical tech competence.

But Steam going down is surprising. I would've expected them to be sophisticated enough to have circuit breakers in place to trigger queuing and load/backpressure autoscaling.

I totally understand if rate limiting for the payment processing kicks in, but Steam has its own wallet and multiple funding methods which should've helped alleviate the processing surge. Plus it shouldn't have caused failures before that point.

nickthegreek 2 hours ago [-]
Would you recommend playing the first before diving into this or is it safe to just pick this up and go?
jsheard 2 hours ago [-]
I don't think anyone has played far enough into Silksong to say for certain yet, but the first game is so story-light that I can't imagine you'd be lost if you skip ahead. You really shouldn't though, the first one is very good.
0cf8612b2e1e 2 hours ago [-]
I would go so far as to say the story from the first is obtuse. I had to read a few story synopses that pulled all of the threads together. Very much a show don’t tell situation.
bkcooper 53 minutes ago [-]
It is very much worth playing but you could probably skip it. As others have alluded to, the storytelling is very influenced by Fromsoft (Souls games, basically) and is pretty oblique. But, even without following it exactly, the gameplay itself is still great, and the music and art do an excellent job setting up a melancholy vibe. The different zones have a lot of personality.
gms7777 1 hours ago [-]
Not having touched Silksong yet, I'd recommend playing the Hollow Knight first. It holds up really well and is absolutely worth a play through. I think sometimes a sequel releases and it makes the original feel hard to go back to, if it's added new features or quality of life things. If I were in your position, I think having the "uncontaminated" experience of Hollow Knight is worth it.

That is, unless you really want to feel like you're part of the conversation these first few weeks after Silksong comes out.

nickthegreek 1 hours ago [-]
gog has it on sale for $7.50. So I'll give it a shot!
cptroot 2 hours ago [-]
No-one can know that for the next dozen hours or so. There were no early review copies, which means no-one knows if Silksong benefits from knowing the story, mechanics, or world of the first game
runevault 2 hours ago [-]
Hollow Knight is a great game, even with the fact from a story PoV you can probably skip it, I simply do not recommend it. To most (myself among them, and metroidvanias are one of my favorite genres), HK is one of the games at the pinnacle of the genre.
ycombinete 1 hours ago [-]
If you do, use a guide or something to get through Hollow Knight. If you 100% Hollow Knight you’ll probably be too burnt out to pick up Silksong for a while.
NobodyNada 53 minutes ago [-]
I don't think that's necessary. Hollow Knight is a game whose appeal comes from exploring a massive, beautiful world and and discovering its secrets -- using a guide would take away a lot of the fun, at least for me.

Yeah, HK is a huge game and Silksong is probably bigger; it'll take a while to play through both. But that's a good thing. Play these games for the experience of playing them, no need to rush through them just to check them off a list.

wil421 10 minutes ago [-]
Lots of us have work and families and don’t have time to organically figure out the insane steps to go down some of the late stage paths.
heyheyhey 39 minutes ago [-]
The whole point of the game and genre is the exploration. A guide kinda defeats that.

If you don't like the backtracking (I hated it), then the game is probably not for you.

simlevesque 24 minutes ago [-]
What a weird comment. The whole point of any game is to have fun.

If someone enjoys playing a game with a guide, what's the problem exactly ?

jabroni_salad 1 hours ago [-]
Silksong is supposed to be a standalone story so play order does not matter.
IAmLiterallyAB 1 hours ago [-]
Maybe, but the first one was so incredible, why not play it first?
danaris 27 minutes ago [-]
In addition to what others have said, my understanding from Team Cherry's few reveals over the years since HK released is that Silksong takes place in a different location than Hallownest, the setting of Hollow Knight (though within the same world). Thus, given that most of the story of Hollow Knight is about Hallownest and what happened there, it is likely that you wouldn't miss much besides a few cool little connections by playing Silksong first.
x0x0 2 hours ago [-]
If you like metroidvanias, the first is an absolute gem. Whether you do it first or second, you shouldn't miss it.
i_c_b 2 hours ago [-]
A few years ago, I was feeling dispirited about being middle-aged and had come around to the conclusion that, at least when playing games, my general dissatisfaction and "meh" response to the games I was playing was probably a function of my age rather than anything about the games themselves. I was enjoying some games to an extent, but I wasn't being really grabbed by anything, and I was having a hard time sticking with much that I was playing. It seemed like a reasonable just-so story, and a particular exhausting one if you make games and theoretically are supposed to like them.

And then I picked up Hollow Knight, was utterly sucked into it in a deep way, couldn't put it down, and came out the other side doing the Principle Skinner meme - "Am I so out of touch? No, it's all those other games that have been wrong..."

So thank you Team Cherry, for helping remind me that 1) I really can love games deeply, even in my tired middle-aged-ness, and 2) sometimes the problem isn't that a person is being too judgmental, the problem is that the the lofty potential of their ideals really is, perhaps, justified, and other creative people (for a variety of understandable reasons, really - making games is a hard and costly business) mostly aren't even really aiming for such things.

SAI_Peregrinus 3 minutes ago [-]
When I was young there were two types of games I tended to enjoy: single-player games (e.g. Nethack, Half-life, Starcraft, & others with a good story and gameplay, or just deep gameplay) and LAN party games (e.g. Unreal Tournament, Counter Strike, Total Annihilation, Quake II, and similar). LAN party games were more fun at LAN parties than online, and not just because server browsers all kind of sucked. Playing along with other people you can see in the same room is a very different experience from playing along with other people you've never met, can't see, and will never encounter again.

These days my friends are scattered across the country, with jobs & families, and so LAN parties are basically dead. And many new games don't even support LAN play, instead they tend to be optimized for online play with some sort of ranking system.

That leaves single-player games. And really good single-player games are rare, just like really good anything is rare. I find a lot of story-driven singleplayer games have good stories, but crap gameplay, so it's frustrating to try to complete the story. If the story is good enough & the gameplay bad enough I'll just cheat & treat the whole thing more like a book or movie instead of a game, but for a lot of games I just don't bother even with that.

But occasionally a game grabs me. The story is great, and the gameplay is at least good enough, or it's just really good gameplay that stays engaging for a long time (e.g. Slay the Spire). These are few & far between, because making really good games is very difficult.

As I age my tolerance for mediocrity decreases, partly because I already own a whole bunch of still-engaging games I can always play. So I agree with your points. The really great games are rare, far rarer than best-selling games.

the_snooze 1 hours ago [-]
I do most of my gaming in the single-player indie space these days. It's really where the fun is. You have a deep time-tested catalog of beautiful and complete experiences that don't try to nickel-and-dime you with drip-fed content or recurring microtransactions. They're games first and foremost, not extraction machines. It's the opposite of the BS you see in big-budget titles.
cassiogo 59 minutes ago [-]
Felt a similar way when playing Expedition 33 earlier this year. Such a great game.
dan353hehe 1 hours ago [-]
Well, there goes my week.

I have a hard time getting into games anymore, but hollow knight was one that actually kept my attention enough to finish. Super great game!

medwards666 1 hours ago [-]
Then, if you haven't already tried it, I can heartily recommend Nine Sols as well. Not _quite_ up there with HK, but not too far behind ...
techpression 45 minutes ago [-]
I found Nine Sols to be superior, much more engaging combat and more fluid as a whole, also with much darker story and more evil bosses. Of course taste is subjective, it’s a great recommendation none the less.
12_throw_away 2 hours ago [-]
I believe the Deltarune release this year also crashed a bunch of storefronts. Kind of interesting to compare the sales from these tiny indie developers vs, say, anything that Microsoft's mega game studios have touched in the last few years.
jsheard 2 hours ago [-]
I think that's mainly down to those mega-huge games usually having preorders, and small indie game usually not, for whatever reason.

Neither Deltarune or Silksong could be preordered so everyone was zerg rushing the stores at the same time.

0cf8612b2e1e 1 hours ago [-]
Especially with the ballooning size of installs, pre-ordering and pre-loading a 100GB+ game could be the difference between playing same day vs the next.
altairprime 2 hours ago [-]
There’s a natural break-even point between the cost of maintaining peak server capacity and the lost revenue of server outages, especially if that peak demand is primarily fixed-quantity for a unique product with a very low chance of giving up. Ticketmaster figured this out decades ago and clearly the major game platforms have learned it as well.

Note to clouders, they could spend on pre-warmed autoscaler pools, but a corporation that spends a single dollar of revenue more than necessary to make the sale is violating its duty to shareholders, and total gross launch revenue will be the same whether they do or not, so they won’t, even though they could.

Note to game developers, for this exact reason you should be demanding launch month bonus targets rather than day or week; any less and you’re being knowingly ripped off by business execs.

shadowgovt 27 minutes ago [-]
Games, as an industry, have a lot of overlap with film. One of those overlaps is that it's still an industry where one person, with the right idea and (depending on the idea) the willingness to invest the ungodly amount of time to see it through, can put something out there that competes with the big teams and big budgets.

Sometimes, the idea hits so hard that you don't even need the time investment. Notch got Minecraft from version alpha to version 1 in 2 years. That one was lightning in a bottle; unlikely to be reproducible consistently.

dismalaf 18 minutes ago [-]
With all the recent news about the demise of the game industry, it's nice to see lots of demand for a game, especially an indie title.
iammjm 1 hours ago [-]
Whats responsible for its secret? looks like an indie platformer game amongst many, many others. I think theres been about 20k games released on steam in 2024. How does it manage to stand out amongst other games?
greenpizza13 57 minutes ago [-]
It's the sequel to an indie darling widely viewed as among the best (or the best) metroidvanias. On top of that, the game has been in development for 6+ years, so long that the release has become a meme. See r/SilkSong. The hype for this is remarkable and people have been counting the hours since it was announced 2 weeks ago.

People trust Team Cherry to deliver a commensurate experience to Hollow Knight, which stands as many peoples' favorite games of all time.

This kind of hype comes rarely, and it's very specific to this specific game.

shadowgovt 32 minutes ago [-]
That development time window, and the fanbase salivating for a sequel, makes me smile.

Nintendo famously spends something like 6-8 years on its flagship titles (both Tears of the Kingdom and Mario Kart World are in that timeframe). Sometimes, depending on the team you're working with and the material you have, it turns out the secret to making a good game is... Time.

blobby14 31 minutes ago [-]
For me, the original Hollow Knight wasn't exceptionally innovative or original, but did set an extremely high bar for polish and refinement over similar indie games. I've played a lot of metroid-style games and Hollow Knight has super tight movement, and expansive and thoughtfully interconnected map, simple but addictive combat, great art and design, memorable music, etc. Plenty of other games have some or most of those things, Hollow Knight just executes them at such a consistent level of craftsmanship that it stands out.
Bjartr 55 minutes ago [-]
What makes a meal stand out amongst others made with the same ingredients? Game design is a thing that requires careful balance to produce an engaging and satisfying experience both moment to moment and over course of the whole game. Think how difficult it is to make a truly great movie, only now put the camera in the hands of any random person for it's duration and keep it great.

Many games do well at a few aspects, but few hit it out of the park across the board.

Hollow Knight managed something pretty close to that. It's a creative feat that required not only excellence in storytelling, art, music, and interaction design, asking others, but also excellence in blending then together to make something that is more than the sum of its parts.

The studio that did that is releasing a new game in the same vein and people want more of that established track record of excellence.

MBCook 35 minutes ago [-]
Eurogamer just published an article on what was so impressive about the original:

https://www.eurogamer.net/whats-so-special-about-the-origina...

ahartmetz 1 hours ago [-]
Not sure, really. Hollow Knight is a nice game, but it didn't blow me away. The atmosphere is very nice, but the main storyline is IMO overwrought and kind of random. The side stories and most characters are also nice. The mechanics are, I guess, above average as well.
rimunroe 44 minutes ago [-]
I feel similarly. I appear to have put 30 hours into it at this point, but I don't have particularly strong memories of any part of it. It took me several tries to get into it initially. I've always felt like Ori and the Blind Forest (released only two years before Hollow Knight) was a much better game overall, particularly when it came to movement and story execution.
SnuffBox 50 minutes ago [-]
From what I've seen on Reddit it seems to have a viral meme aspect to it.
NobodyNada 44 minutes ago [-]
Sure, but the viral meme aspect is because HK was such a well received game and Silksong has been so highly anticipated for so long, not the other way around. It certainly contributes to the hype today, but memes are not the reason for the initial success of Hollow Knight and the anticipation of Silksong. The memes really took off around 2021-2022 after Silksong had been in development for several years with no release in sight and people started wondering how long of a wait they were in for.
SnuffBox 38 minutes ago [-]
I suppose it could be because it's a competent platformer in a world where most games are not.
doctorpangloss 45 minutes ago [-]
Lots of things but let's focus on just two.

First you're looking at it wrong: it doesn't really matter how busy the calendar is. I mean just because people say that it does matter how many games or creative products or whatever are released, and just because some of those people are experienced execs, doesn't mean that it's true.

People who buy games aren't thinking, man I don't have time for games. Okay? So you see how the first thing to understand is: this isn't for you. Someone who has to make choices about how to spend their time isn't buying many games at all.

Before Silksong, they validated marketability & audience many times. Hollow Knight was in Ludum Dare, Newgrounds, festival & conference circuit, Kickstarter, multiple stores & formats.

Why was it standing out then? To me, the coherence of the art, and a game format that aligns with the indie art production and audience validation well.

Consider that larger games are arted by art directors and teams of contractors. If your whole team is excellent and you spend a lot of money rejecting art, okay, you will wind up with something coherent. You can also have 1 person make all the art like Hollow Knight & Silksong.

Indie games - and these guys are actually independently published and actually just 3 people and a handful of contractors - have this superpower. Any 1 person can make all the art for their indie game, and some have found great success doing this, like Stardew Valley. Some people give up a year in, or ten years in, or whatever.

So if you have little trickles of validation along the way, then you actually finish your game, which is maybe why this all worked.

And then this game is a sequence of levels, you can finish all the art for one screen and then move onto the next screen. You can finish a walk cycle going forward, and record the character moving forward in a single background, and it looks like a finished game. A 3D Hero Shooter requires a huge amount of work on level and character art before a preview is fully arted.

Freak_NL 2 hours ago [-]
Oh right! I was wondering why Steam wasn't loading the store properly. That hasn't happened in a while, has it?
medwards666 55 minutes ago [-]
Not since the last Steam sale (and every single Steam sale before it) ... really, Valve need to sort out their creaking server infrastructure for big events and launches. It's not like no-one could have predicted this ...
christkv 1 hours ago [-]
I'm just wondering why they don't stage the release by releasing it into different timezones at the same hour but not at the same time.
dvfjsdhgfv 2 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
HanClinto 2 hours ago [-]
Silksong is already offered DRM-free via GoG at the same price as all other platforms:

https://www.gog.com/en/game/hollow_knight_silksong

fwsgonzo 2 hours ago [-]
Yep, when steam didn't work I got it immediately on GoG. Glad I did because it works flawlessly on Linux, and it comes with a Linux installer!
maples37 2 hours ago [-]
Do you know how the GoG version handles achievements? I'm very used to the Steam achievement system, but obviously that's not an option when you're not using Steam.
jabroni_salad 1 hours ago [-]
Hollow Knight had an internal achievement tracker so it will likely be the same for Silksong. You could even unlock achievements on other platforms by porting your save file over.
Retr0id 2 hours ago [-]
Is there an aarch64 linux build by any chance? (I've been playing the original via muvm/fex, which mostly works but crashes in menus frequently)
bspammer 2 hours ago [-]
It's pretty sad that the people in that thread don't seem to know what a DRM-free game is. The idea of a game as an executable that just runs unconditionally is a foreign concept, so it must have been "cracked"
2 hours ago [-]
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